Liberty University SOM Online
Relational Interview Paper
Submitted to Dr. Zeb Balentine
In partial fulfillment of the requirements for the completion of
WRSP 430 – B01
Building Relationships Through Worship
By
Madilyn Dowell
September 19, 2021
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Recently, I had the privilege of conducting an interview with Terry Scalzitti, Senior
Pastor at Ocean View Baptist Church in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. In my eyes, Pastor Terry
was the perfect candidate for this project because he is an incredibly dynamic leader, and he
embodies most if not all the qualities of a relational leader that this course describes. We sat
down for the interview on Monday, September 13, and the interview lasted just under an hour. It
was very dialogical in nature and not conducted in a rigid question answer kind of way.
Pastor Terry has been the Senior Pastor at Ocean View Baptist Church for 8 years. Before
he was a senior pastor, he was an associate pastor at First Baptist Church in Fort Lauderdale,
Florida. Prior to ministry leadership, he was a social studies teacher. In essence, he has always
held some sort of leadership position in his professional career.
Pastor Terry made the decision to pursue pastoral leadership after a process of God
working on His heart. Many friends, peers, and mentors took notice of the anointing that Terry
had on his life and told him that he should be a pastor. Hearing this reminding me of a quote
from the course text, “The followers of a true leader confirm his calling. He doesn’t have to
declare his calling. Others do it for him”. God had been placing that call on his life, but Terry
1
ran from that calling. After enough people “bugged him about it”, he prayed 3 things. If God
really wanted him to be a pastor, Terry prayed first that God would confirm it through friends.
This was easy for God, and He delivered on that prayer. Terry figured it would be easy for God
so secondly, he prayed that God would confirm his calling through a complete and total stranger.
This would be enough to grab his attention, but maybe not enough to incite him to fully commit
himself to this calling, so Terry prayed a third thing: that God would break his heart. Within a
1 John C. Maxwell, “Be A People Person”, (Colorado Springs: CO, David C. Cook, 2007)
Chapter 4.
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matter of weeks, God answered all three points to Terry’s prayer, and he made the decision to
stop running from his calling and fully surrender his heart to the Lord.
Pastor Terry believes that people and their development are the whole reason that we do
what we do as ministry leaders. He said that “Being a pastor or a ministry leader is not about
self-adulation or self-promotion”. Spiritual development is the measure of success in a ministry.
“To me, being a pastor and being a shepherd, I am shepherding individuals to whatever their next
step is within Christ. My job is to help an individual, given where they’re at, to be able to take
their next steps. So, with regard to that, how important is it to move individuals along? It’s
everything that we do”. When I asked Pastor Terry to rate his relational skills on a scale of 1 to
10, he told me directly that nobody is a 10. No one will ever achieve perfect relational skills, and
there will always be room for growth. He rated his relational skills at an 8 because he is self-
aware and recognizes that relational skills are a strongpoint of his.
Throughout his time in ministry, Pastor Terry has worked to cultivate his leadership skills
by attending and being involved in church conferences, by finding mentors in the profession that
are far ahead of him, and by identifying the wiser generation within the church and humbling
himself to ask for their input. He emphasized that he did not mention seminary training because
while seminary equipped him with the tools to be theologically sound and biblically accurate in
his teaching, it had little to do with making him into the leader he is today. He said that
leadership is learned, and it relies heavily on your ability to build relationships with people.
Pastor Terry described that the best way for a worship leader to build a healthy working
relationship with their senior pastor is to pursue them. Senior pastors bear many burdens that no
one sees or knows about. Young worship leaders may not realize the schedule that a senior pastor
has, and so if they desire a relationship with the senior pastor, they must be the driving force to
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obtain it because a million other things are vying for the pastor’s time and attention as well.
Similarly, Pastor Terry believes the best way to build healthy working relationships with other
staff members is to figure out your natural rhythm, identify the few people that are a part of your
daily rhythm - the people you connect with demographically, in regards to season of life, etc. -
then identify the people that are not a part of your daily rhythm - the people that you may not
directly relate to - and rotate between spending time with those people.
Pastor Terry is conscious that the tension of balancing ministry and family can be
difficult, and ministry leaders don’t always have the luxury of balancing both successfully.
However, he said the best way for a worship leader to build healthy relationships within their
family is to establish guardrails. Guard your time off, and when you are off, invest in your
family. Be present. It is important to remember that “There is no amount of time and energy that
the church will not take from you that you aren’t willing to give”. Therefore, it is most important
2
to learn to say “no” in ministry. As Pastor Terry said, chances are, “if you make everybody happy
it means you’re sacrificing your family”. “Don’t sacrifice your family on the altar of ministry”.
3
Pastor Terry also described how these guardrails will adjust depending on the season of life that a
worship leader is in. As a young single adult, a worship leader will naturally have more time to
devote to their ministry area. They should still guard time with their family, but they might not
need as much. When a worship leader has a young child or children, they will not have as much
time to devote to their ministry because they have a greater responsibility at home. The balance
between ministry and family is ever-changing, but family should always come first, because it is
the first ministry that we are entrusted by God to lead.
2 Dr. Zeb Balentine, “The Worshiping Family”, Video presentation, 11:45, Liberty University,
June 11, 2020.
3 Dr. Zeb Balentine, “The Worshiping Family”, 2020.
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Regarding worship leaders developing healthy relationships with those to whom they
minister, Pastor Terry said it is all about authenticity. It is giving trust to the people to gain the
trust of the people. This means not being a “green room worship leader”. It means intentionally
putting yourself in positions and places where you can fellowship with and invest in the people
you are leading. It means opening your heart. Finally, it means modeling for your people what
you are asking of them. “We teach what we know, but we reproduce what we are”. Pastor Terry
4
said, “Never expect people to rise above the level of your leadership”. After all, “Leadership sets
the standard, whether the organization be a business, a church, or a family”.5
On this same vein, Pastor Terry and I discussed some relational pitfalls. For the worship
leader in particular, you must be careful how high you build your pedestal. The platform in
worship leading comes with visibility, and it is very easy for the worship leader to become an
idol to the people or to their self. Because of this, the worship leader must actively and
intentionally cut the legs off their pedestal week in and week out. Additionally, worship leaders
should be wary of praise. It feels good to receive praise because we are human, and we
appreciate affirmation. But glory belongs to the Lord. We are never meant to receive it, and
never meant to hold onto it, but always to give it to Him. This echoes the principle found in the
Psalms, “Not us, O Lord, not to us, but to Your name be the glory for Your unfailing love and
faithfulness!”6 So, when we receive a complement or a praise, our immediate response should be
to redirect that praise back to God.
I shared with Pastor Terry about my trepidation when it comes to praise. At my previous
church, I unfortunately had a bad experience with a toxic senior pastor. One day, he
complemented my worship leadership from the previous Sunday, and I deflected the praise and
4 John C. Maxwell, “Be A People Person”, Chapter 10.
5 Maxwell, “Be A People Person”, Chapter 4.
6 Ps. 115:1, NLT.
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said that I wasn’t doing anything great, just what I am called to do. He stopped me, accused me
of false humility, and told me it was unbecoming. He said that I should take credit for a job well
done instead of trying to give glory to God to make myself look good. I left that interaction
stunned. After that, I became extremely uncomfortable with receiving complements or praise.
But it was during my first semester of college that God worked on my heart. I was having a
discussion with a friend when she said that we must think of complements like flowers. When
they’re offered, we pick them, and we put them in our pocket. We accumulate them throughout
the day so that at the end, we can get on our knees before the Lord and offer up a bouquet of
praise to Him. This analogy helped me heal from the wound that I had been carrying for years
when it came to receiving praise. Pastor Terry and I both agreed that it’s a beautiful picture of
what worship is, and it is redirecting God’s glory back to Him!
I gained a tremendous amount of insight from my interview with Pastor Terry, and I am
confident that I will be able to apply what I gleaned from our discussion to my own life and my
ministry.
Bibliographies
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Balentine, Zeb, Dr. “The Worshiping Family”. WRSP 430: Building Relationships Through
Worship. Video presentation at Liberty University, Lynchburg, VA, June 11, 2020.
Accessed September 7, 2021.
Maxwell, John C. “Be A People Person: Effective Leadership Through Effective Relationships”.
John C. Cook, 2007. Accessed September 19, 2021.
https://libertyonline.vitalsource.com/#/books/9780781448437/
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General Information
Date of interview: September 13, 2021.
Length of interview: 55 minutes.
Interview conducted via: Face-to-face.
Student name: Madilyn Dowell
Student email: mdowell3@liberty.edu
Leader’s contact information for possible future questions
Say verbatim, “May I have your contact information in case of the need to ask follow up
questions?”
Name: Terry Scalzit
Email: terry[email protected]
Work phone: 1 (954) 732-5814
Main Interview
Type into the box below by following the format: “I” designates Interviewer (You) and “S”
designates Subject. You should summarize the answers of the Subject in such a way that your
report reflects the main points and statements of the answer.
I: How long have you been a Senior Pastor?
S: “8 years.”
I: Did you work in a non-leadership capacity before you began your current position? If so,
how long?
S: “I was an Associate Pastor at my last church for 13 years and prior to that I was a social
studies teacher. So, in essence, I’ve probably been in some leadership capacity my whole
career.”
I: What made you decide to pursue this career path?
S: “A: “God. I had a lot of people telling me I needed to be a pastor, so I prayed three things. I
said ‘God if you want me to be a pastor, then you need to confirm it through friends. And
that’s really easy for You to do which is why I have a second prayer, that I need You to confirm
it through a complete stranger. And then even if you do that, what You need to do is break my
heart.’ He confirmed it through friends at the summer camp I was interning at, so God
delivered on my first prayer. Then as I was setng up for camp a guy that I had never met
before came up to me and asked to take me to dinner. While at dinner, he told me he never
really does this, but He felt God tell Him that He needed to tell me that I need to be a pastor.
So that really got my attention. Fast forward to that Wednesday at camp, and the pastor who
was speaking was in the middle of the invitation when he just stops. I knew why he stopped. I
knew what he was going to say next. He said ‘I’m sorry, I can’t continue this because for the
last 5 minutes, God has been telling me that I needed to say this. There is somebody here
that God has called to be a pastor and God wants me to say it’s time for you to stop running.
It’s time for you to give your heart over to the Lord.’ At that moment, I broke down in tears.
My heart broke. I decided that night that I was going to look into being a pastor. God
confirmed it through my quiet time.”
I: How important are people and their development to you in your current leadership role?
S: A: “That’s the whole reason I do what I do. Being a pastor or a ministry leader is not about
self-adulation or self-promotion. I am a practical person, and if what I’m doing is not effective
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then I shouldn’t do what I do. To me being a pastor and being a shepherd, I am shepherding
individuals to whatever their next step is within Christ. My job is to help an individual where
they’re at, to be able to take their next steps. So, with regard to that, moving individuals and
how important is it, it’s everything that we do. If we’re not being effective as ministry leaders
and if we’re not leading people anywhere, then we’re not leaders and we should absolutely
get out of the profession because otherwise we ultimately become a hinderance to the
profession. And to clarify, people should get out of the profession only if they’ve exhausted
every resource available to them to help them be a better leader. It should always be about
moving people to their next step and not about us having an audience for ourselves.”
I: On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your relational skills?
S: “Nobody is a 10. I would say I am probably an 8 because that is one of my strengths in
ministry.”
I: In what ways have you worked to develop relational skills throughout your time in ministry?
S: “I’m going to use specifics. Being a part of and sitng through conferences, I have been
mentored so I have someone who had 15 years ahead of me mentor me, I would also say I
had the people that I shepherded that were wiser in age, and I humbled myself before them
to ask for their input and how I could be a better leader. As a young leader that was hard to
do especially when I heard something I didn’t like. I was probably pretty prideful as a young
leader, but to my advantage, I wasn’t thick-headed, so I would take that advice, stew on it,
then I would say “what do I need to do to change in order to accomplish what I need to?’ And
then of course, training at seminary. But the leader that I am is not because of seminary. The
leader that I am today is all through hard knocks, trial and failure, and mentors that have
been there done that and poured into me.”
I: On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your leadership skills?
S: “Again, nobody is a 10, and again, I’d have to go with an 8. Whenever a situation arises that
needs strong leadership, I look to God because He’s the One who put me here and He’s the
one who will deliver.”
I: In what ways have you worked to develop leadership skills throughout your time in
ministry?
S: “I’d say conferences again that pertain directly to what I deal with as a senior pastor,
mentors play a huge role because they model that leadership for me, and growing my
relationship with God as a follower of Him. You have to be a follower of God before you can
be a leader of others.”
I: What advice would you give worship leaders regarding developing healthy working
relationships with their Senior Pastors and other staff members?
S: “Number one: Pursue them. Then number two: pursue them. Pastors step into moments
that nobody else has to step into, they have to know the right things to say, they have to be
able to show the right amount of empathy, and they have to be really dialed into the Holy
Spirit. Sometimes young leaders don’t realize the schedule that a lead pastor has to walk
through or the pressures of being a lead pastor. He’s got 700 things on his mind and he’s
dealing with 75 fires at all times, so if I don’t go after him and if I don’t pursue him, the fires
are going to overtake what he would really love to do which is spend a little time with me. But
the fires have consumed his schedule and life to where he does not have the capacity to spin
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37 plates perfectly. If you as a young worship leader want a relationship with your lead pastor,
you have to be the driving force to obtain it, because you are one of 2,000 (ocean view’s
number of attendees) people vying for his attention and time. As for building solid working
relationships with other staff, I would say figure out your rhythm, learn what staff members
are in your natural rhythm, but don’t spend all your time with those people. Find your
intermediates, so these are the people that you want to send more time with but maybe you
have conflicting schedules or are in different stages of life. Then I would put a rotation on
your schedule to be able to monthly have lunch or do something with them. Pursue them.
Then I would also schedule, at least once in a while, a lunch with someone I don’t like. From
afar, we might think we don’t like someone. The truth is, we’ve never given them the
opportunity to open their heart. So, if I can at least put a lunch on the calendar and sit
through it and ask them about their life, then I might just find someone that is more of a
friend than I realize.”
I: What advice would you give worship leaders regarding developing healthy relationship with
their families?
S: “The danger that ministry leaders feel is that ministry always feels right because our
purpose in life is to glorify God with everything we do. However, we can be, in our minds,
fulfilling our purpose, an actually have all the evidence to prove it, and lose our families at the
same time. So, the question for us as leader is, can we have both at the same time? The
answer is no. If you lose your family, you lose your ministry. You need to make sure you watch
your family. If you can’t lead your family, you can’t lead others. So, what do we need to do?
Guardrails. So that means you guard your day/s off. Whatever that sabbath is, guard it. Have
fun with your family, invest in those times. Be present with your family. Be in the moment
with your family. Have fun because fun connects what has been disconnected. Learn to say
‘no’ in ministry. Learn to be disliked in ministry. Because if you make everybody happy it
means you’re sacrificing your family. Learn to train the people you’re leading to respect your
guardrails. When you look at boundaries, they will change depending on your season of life.
When you’re a single adult, you probably have a lot more time to devote to your ministry. You
still need to have those boundaries for personal and family time, but you might not need as
much. When you have a young child, you’re not going to be able to give as much to the
ministry because you have a bigger responsibility at home. Your time that you devote to
ministry and family will change depending on your season of life and your responsibilities.”
I: What advice would you give worship pastors regarding developing healthy relationships
with those with whom they minister?
S: “I would start with a core four. Who are the individuals who, if you were to get hit by a car,
these are the individuals I would hand the ministry over to tomorrow? Build relationships
with them, give them ownership of the ministry, spend time with them, and have fun. Once
you have that, you need to begin to develop your teams and structures. Meet with your team
on a consistent basis, communicate with them on a consistent basis, and give them
ownership. Empower them. That’s how you grow the team. One other thing I would say is
never sacrifice excellence on the altar of relationships. You can have excellence and
relationship, but never excuse excellence because of a relationship. That’s how ministries fail,
because leaders don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings and a lack of excellence consumes the
ministry. As for building healthy relationships with the congregation, authenticity is number
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one. You build it by number one by giving trust the congregation. Be able to open your heart.
You can’t expect their trust if you don’t give them trust. How do I let them see my heart? You
have to spend time with them. One of the dangers of the worship leader is usually you’re up
singing and then everybody disperses, so you need to spend time intentionally in places
where you can get to know the people that you’re leading. Be involved in the ministry of the
church. You should never expect anybody to rise above the level of your leadership. Invest in
them and you will connect with them better and they will trust you. Then when you ask them
to “sing these words” or “reach their hands in the air”, if they trust you, they will know that if
you’re asking them do it, then it must be for their betterment, and so they’ll follow your
leadership.”
I: What are some relational pitfalls that worship leaders should be aware of?
S: “Be careful how high you build pedestal. The higher you build it, the farther you have to
fall. The biggest danger of the worship leader is that you become an idol in worship. How do
you get rid of that? You have to intentionally cut the legs of your pedestal off week in and
week out. Always point to the one who gave you the mouth to sing. Does praise feel good to
receive? Absolutely. But let your first reaction be ‘praise God.’ If you don’t, the problem is
that over time, you might start believing your ‘thank you’s’ and letng them go to your head.
Make sure you don’t become an idol, and that you quickly return where the praise comes
from.”
I: Is there anything you would like to add regarding relationships in leadership that has not
already been covered?
S: “I would say the toughest position in this world with regard to relationships is that of a
ministry leader. The reason why is you are tasked with modeling Jesus to individuals that are
really difficult to model that to. And your human side and culture are going to say why should
you. That’s when you have to put on the robe of Christ, and you need to not act like you want
to act but you need to act like Christ would act. Which doesn’t feel good. Many individuals
even in ministry would say why do you have to do that? The litmus test I give myself is ‘God, if
I choose this path relationally, if I choose to speak, who is this benefitng?’ And if the answer
is me, then I typically say that’s self-motivated. If what I’m saying is going to better the
church, then I do it. For instance, let’s say you have someone gossiping about you. If they’re
spreading that gossip and its hurting the body then it should be addressed. If it’s an individual
who has a perception of you and they just don’t like you and they talk about you within their
own family and you’ve gone to that person and tried to make it right, it might feel really good
in the moment to gossip about that person, but if you do that, you’ve just sinned to protect
yourself. It’s not going to do anything for the church. Those are the moments as a ministry
leader where you choose to keep quiet and move forward for the benefit of the body. Expect
the ankle biters to be difficult to lead. Only take out the sledgehammer oof leadership out
when it is actually necessary.”
I: (Thank the leader for his/her time)
