DISCUSSION BOARD WEEK 2.docx.pdf

DB2

What is an appropriate relationship between the institutions of church and state in relation to the

formation of laws, public policy, and political activity, particularly since the 1st Amendment

forbids the government from mandating a state religion?

Do church and state operate in separate spheres or do they intersect, and are both ordained by

God, regardless of the structure or people in power? Refer to the views of the Founding Fathers,

current church/state issues, and Romans 13:1-7, 1 Peter 2:13-17, and 1 Timothy 2:1-2.

Define American civil religion and address whether it is theologically correct to blend the

Christian faith with the American civil religion, or to view them as equivalent. Discuss the

political and theological arguments for or against the concept of America as God's chosen nation.

Defend your conclusions with scholarly sources.

P1 – Appropriate relationship between church and state regarding formation of laws, public

policy, political activity, first amendment forbids the government from mandating a state religion

Relationship between state and church

Laws - political system further balanced by its federal structure

14th amendment cannont be cannot be overstated in a discussion of religious

disestablishment

“On their face these provisions apply only to the federal Congress, which is thus prohibited from

either establishing a federal religion or interfering with the existing established religions in some

states.”

Public policy

Political activity –

Constitution first amendment forbidding from a mandated state religion

Concerning separation of church and state the founders did not want religion or beliefs to

be stripped from public schools or anything like that, rather, when mentioning separation of

church and state, they were simply stating that they did not want a taxpaying church of America.

They did not want a state religion but rather the fruition of religious beliefs throughout the

Nation. Jefferson attended and supported churches meeting in the Treasury building because

there were not enough big church buildings in Washington (Gingrinch, 2022). The first

amendment has two clauses, the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause; both

prohibits discrimination on religious belief or practice by adopting or endorsing. The difference

is, the Endorsement Clause does so through laws or actions of governmental employees and the

Free Exercise Clause is through individuals and organizations (2007). The fourteenth amendment

is also a great source on the discussion of religious toleration and disestablishment. Locke

supported religious toleration but not disestablishment, it is unconstitutional. “On their face these

provisions apply only to the federal Congress, which is thus prohibited from either establishing a

federal religion or interfering with the existing established religions in some states” (2007).

P2 - Ordained by God, God does ordain the church and the state government look at samson for

an example God ordained his life. He had a plan for him. Samson did not steward or prioritize

that plan Judges 16

- Look at titups, God ordains the church and the people whether they obey God or not is up

to the free will of the peole

Founding fathers on church and state

To say that the church and state operate in separate spheres is saying that one’s religion

does not influence their moral compass in decision making and the way one lives their life. “The

state generally reinforces the established church by promoting the truth of its teachings, although

this can be done in direct or indirect ways: suppressing alternate religious practices, compelling

attendance at worship services, providing financial assistance for ministerial salaries and church

buildings, or providing political status for religious leaders” (2007). The two support each other

subconsciously; because the Bible is a metanarrative story that we are still living, the

government is not separate from the Christian life. The people shape the government and people

work in the government, religion is a prominent basis for moral standards; therefore, church and

state often intersect.

Repetition in the Bible is a way the authors demonstrated a common theme; it also shows

the importance of the idea presented. In Romans 13, it talks about respecting governing

authority. 1 Peter 2:13-17 says, “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority:

whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority,” as long as the one in authority is not going

against Gods word, the Lord advises us to respect those in governmental power and authority

(2011). 1 Timothy is prime example of God-ordaining state and church in two verses “for kings

and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful lives and quiet lives in all godliness and

holiness” (2011). This is a prime example of what it means to be a Christian, to represent Jesus

and to keep church and state intersected yet separate. The Puritans first came to America, they

hoped to fulfill a dream of a God-ordained city on a hill. As the Puritans continued to fulfill their

dreams, they encountered the native Americans, Mexicans, and African Americans they did not

see any form of strong government of civilization, so they considered them Inferior Other, this is

where racism began. Some started believing because of their inferiority, the Inferior Other were

not a part of the elect (Wilsey, 2015).

P3 – American Civil religion Definition

- Theologically correct to have Christian faith with American civil religion

Gingrinch

How is America exception al when it comes to faith?

- Free government free people

- Self-government before federal

You have to be patriot have courage work ethic and civic responsibility

People shape the government the gov doesn’t set the people

Basis ain history and principle and not ashamed of religion

No state religion no church of America bugt a flourishment of religious belif seeking God

Locke supported religious toleration but not disestablishment, agreed w protestant but catholic

and atheist were too dangerous because their loyalty to the king was suspect

Separation of church and state just meant that the church wasn’t funded by nthe state or taxes not

limiting God in schools or public scheme

Writing in reaction to what is seen

Don’t like big government because it is inherently corrupt