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Discussion Boards THEO 650 Christian Ethics in Ministry
Discussion Board #1
Post a thread discussing the difference between obedience to the law, that is, to the will of God, and "salvation by
works". Your thread must be at least 400 words long and contain at least two references to the reading assignment
for Module One in McQuilken and Copan. You should also cite scripture in relevant ways in your thread. (Don't
forget to include a word-count with your post). Due by 11:59 p.m. (ET) on Thursday of Module/Week 1
Then, respond to at least two other class members, raising questions and offering additional insights (these should
not be simply repetitioning of what was in your initial thread--instead add something new to the discussion. Your
responses must be at least 200 words each. Due by 11:59 p.m. (ET) on Sunday of Module/Week 1
Be sure to check back and post a response to those who have engaged your ideas, answering questions and
modifying your original ideas in light of what you have learned.
Please include a word count at the bottom of each post. (You may get this information easily if you type your post as
a Word document and then "cut and paste" it into the text box for the Discussion Board Forum.)
Law and Obligation VS Love and Devotion
Difference between obedience to the law, the will of God and “Salvation by Works.”
Many people want to earn their way to heaven by works, it is easy for anyone to fall into this
because people like to have a check list of things they can do in order to prove they are good
enough to be loved, forgiven and shown to deserve rescue from hell. Theologically speaking
most are aware that it is by grace that we are saved, however after salvation many times we fall
into the works. However, God so loved us that he forgave us of all our sins thus qualifying us for
rescue. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”1 Now in regards to law and will
of God we know that God gave the law, but Jesus came to fulfill the law and we walk in grace
because of our relationship with Jesus when we fail. Matthew 5:17 says “Do not think that I
came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.” So, obedience
to what God’s will does not come from an obligation but obedience birthed out of our love for
Jesus. Reuschling says, “Instead of viewing obedience as allegiance to rules for the sake of
obedience, perhaps obedience can be viewed as a practice that teaches us essential aspects of
Christian life. Obedience as a practice assists us in developing virtues and fulfilling obligations
consonant with the moral vision of scripture around which our lives are oriented, which is to “be
imitators of God, therefore as dearly loved children” and “to live a life of love, just as Christ
loved us” (Eph. 5:1–2).2 McQuilkin and Copan explain that
1 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
2 Wyndy Corbin Reuschling, Reviving Evangelical Ethics (Baker Publishing Group.2008) 65. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
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We have already seen that obedience to God’s/Christ’s commands and standards is not
opposed to love; rather, obedience is a reflection of our love for God/Christ (Jn 14:15;
15:10; 1 Jn 2:3). Nor is obedience to God’s laws opposed to faith but rather an expression
or outworking of our trust in God (Eph 2:8-10); indeed, faith is the only way to respond
to grace—not doing to earn God’s acceptance but accepting what God has done for us in
Christ. Nor is law opposed to grace, but rather God’s commands are for our well-being:
“for our good always and for our survival” (Deut 6:24; cf. 10:13). God’s laws are a
gracious gift to us to guide us as the people of God (Ex 20:1-2; Jn 1:17). Yet Christ’s
disciples must go beyond rule following to the transformation of our character so that
obedience becomes increasingly second nature.3
Our obedience out of our love relationship with Jesus is why we do good works and follow the
Bible. When we are so in love with Jesus that we want to honor Him and bring Him glory it is
out of this we began to crucify our flesh so that we can imitate Jesus and walk as He did. This is
not obligation or works for salvation but love and devotion.
Word Count: 558
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Reuschling, Wyndy Corbin. Reviving Evangelical Ethics. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing
Group, 2008. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Responses
Justin,
Thank you for a great post and you are right to say the law is necessary and allows us to
recognize sin. It is also important to understand and know the character of God so that we can
understand the beautiful gift of grace. McQuilkin and Copan explains that “While Christ
embodies and makes clear the full significance of ‘the Law and the Prophets,’ he and the New
Testament writers express an important moral continuity with the Hebrew Scriptures. The Ten
Commandments serve as a moral core—a summary—of the Mosaic law set forth in both Exodus
20 and Deuteronomy 6. As we shall see, nine of these ten commandments are repeated in various
ways in the New Testament.”4 They show that the law is important to Christians but they go on
3 Robertson McQuilkin and Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics (2017, Wordsearch) 91. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
4 Robertson McQuilkin and Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics (2017, Wordsearch) 92. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
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to say “God, we’ve seen, is more concerned with character than commands, more concerned
with love than law. But, in actuality, God’s law is a spelling out of how love will behave.”5 I
love what Reuschling says when she explains “Obedience as a practice assists us in developing
virtues and fulfilling obligations consonant with the moral vision of scripture around which our
lives are oriented, which is to “be imitators of God, therefore as dearly loved children” and “to
live a life of love, just as Christ loved us” (Eph. 5:1–2).6 All of this is so important, however
there is something about being so in love with Jesus that we want to honor Him in all that we do
so that others may come to know the love that we have experienced because we are representing
and imitating Him.
Thank you for a great post, it truly made me stop and think about what we believe and why.
Ness
Word Count: 303
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Reuschling, Wyndy Corbin. Reviving Evangelical Ethics. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing
Group, 2008. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Josh,
Thank you so much for your post, it was excellent. It is important for a believer to know who
they are in Christ. The only thing that I might add would be that the obedience is does come
from who we are just as you said, but I believe that it also is based in our relationship with Jesus.
Our being in love with Jesus should cause a longing to flow out of us to honor Him and bring
Him glory with our lives. Ephesians 5:1-2 says, “Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved
children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering
and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.”7 One of the greatest forms of honor is when
someone wants to imitate you, we are told here in Ephesians we are to be imitators of God. The
Bible does not stop there because he says so clearly that it is because we are “beloved children.”
McQuilkin and Copan explains “God, we’ve seen, is more concerned with character than
commands, more concerned with love than law. But, in actuality, God’s law is a spelling out of
5 Ibid.
6 Wyndy Corbin Reuschling, Reviving Evangelical Ethics (Baker Publishing Group.2008) 65. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
7 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
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how love will behave.”8 Part of obedience comes out of our love for our savior and are desire to
be like him. It is this love relationship that pushes us to do “good works” and to be “obedient.”
Your post was excellent, thank you
Ness
Word Count: 255
8 Robertson McQuilkin and Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics (2017, Wordsearch) 91. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
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Post an initial thread discussing, the problems with evolutionary ethics. Which of the problems
McQuilken and Copan mention in Ch 11 are most important—that is which is the most
compelling reason to reject Evolutionary Ethics and why. Consider whether McQuilken and
Copan overstate the case or not (are the problems with evolutionary ethics inevitable, or merely
possible problems, for example). Consider whether Evolutionary Ethics is compatible with
belief in God as the foundation for Ethics. (Don't merely say, "The Bible teaches creation;
therefore, evolution is incompatible. . ." Instead consider the logic of the question and offer a
defense of your view that will be convincing to a general reader. Your post should be at least
400 words long. Due by Thursday of week 3/Module Three.
For your replies respond to two classmates, identifying at least one strength in their reasoning
regarding Evolutionary Ethics and offering at least one challenge or improvement to ideas they
presented. Don't merely re-state your initial post as a response to theirs’s. Add something new
to the discussion, reacting to their reasons. For example, if you defended P as the main problem,
and they defend Q, you might respond with "I feel that Q is not the most important for two
reasons. . ." This adds new material that was not in your original post but which help strengthen
your original case. You should consider also their perspective on evolutionary ethics and God, if
it differs from yours. Your replies should be a least 200 words long.
In your initial thread be sure to cite McQuilken and Copan at least twice. In the responses cite
them at least once. If you bring in additional material from outside that will be even better.
McQuilken and Copan explain that evolutionary ethics is described as our ethics were
developed through evolution for the purpose of helping us “survive and reproduce.”9 They
continue by saying that even if it was a possible truth, it still would not discount God. They go
on to discuss that God created us with dignity because we were made in image of a “good God
(Gen 1:26-27)”10 rather than products of “mindless, impersonal, valueless, material forces.”
They listed several problems with evolutionary ethics with the last listed being, “why trust our
beliefs at all if we are just the product of those material, valueless, mindless processes? If we are
simply the products of naturalistic evolution and wired for survival, then the beliefs we hold are
produced by nonrational forces beyond our control.”11 Would it not be logical to think that with
this type of rational thinking and as human beings we cannot even trust our own thoughts and
beliefs, there must be something or someone else greater than man who is in ultimate control?
Reuschling says “ethics has been separated from theology in an effort to separate the sacred and
the secular, and now we find ourselves in the midst of a crisis about the foundation of ethics.” 12
9 Robert McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the way Wisdom (Downers Grove,
IL: Intervarsity Press, 2013), 181, MyWSB.
10 Ibid.
11 Ibid.
12 Wyndy Corbin Reuschling, Reviving Evangelical Ethics (Baker Publishing Group.2008) 13. Retrieved from
https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
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McQuilkin and Copan goes on to explain that we were made from the dust of the ground
by “the triune God has granted his image bearers the elevated place of co-ruling creation with
him as priest-kings (Gen 1:28).” 13 The authors in now way overstate the case regarding this
subject. When you consider that we were made from dust and created with the purpose of being
co-rulers with an almighty, powerful creator “to care for creation and to shape culture so that
fellow humans may flourish.”14 There is no way that we can legitimately claim anything other
than God our creator created us not from an evolutionary idea with natural forces and are
mindless. When you combine what the Bible says in Genesis 1:1 where it says that God created
the heavens and the earth and continues in Genesis 1:26-27, “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man
in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the
birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creeps on the earth.’ God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.”15
Evolutionary Ethics is not compatible with belief in God because those who believe in
evolutionary ethics tend to lean on science and biology. McQuilkin and Copan says “Our basic
moral awareness has a robust moral framework anchored in a good, loving and just God. Given
this context, we have important resources for making moral judgments and living wisely in this
world. The fear of the Lord is indeed the beginning of wisdom.”16 Those who are evolutionists
are the ones who take God of who we are and make nature and themselves god. In many ways it
takes more faith to believe in nothingness into something without a creator, than the beautiful
and amazing God who created us in His image.
Word Count: 605
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Reuschling, Wyndy Corbin. Reviving Evangelical Ethics. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing
Group, 2008. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Chris,
13 McQuilkin and Copan, 2017, 183.
14 Ibid.
15 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
16 McQuilkin and Copan, 2017, 183.
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Thank you for your response, and I can see how you would feel that we must appeal to them
logically and to their reasoning. I wonder though if many of them are so convinced of a lie they
would not believe anything said aside from the Holy Spirit and his revelation. Just as you said
that a belief such as the idea of people coming from apes and that our ethics somehow came out
of this is confused. The one thing that I would say though is that I am not sure we can always
appeal to their logic and reasoning but must depend on the ability of the Holy Spirit to bring
revelation. Erickson says, “the Holy Spirit’s role concerns His spiritual working upon and within
humans.”17 Lambert reminds us that the Holy Spirit is who makes real and lasting change
possible.18 The Bible in Ephesians 5:1 says “Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved
children.”19 McQuilkin and Copan says “Our basic moral awareness has a robust moral
framework anchored in a good, loving and just God. Given this context, we have important
resources for making moral judgments and living wisely in this world. The fear of the Lord is
indeed the beginning of wisdom.”20
Thanks,
Ness
Word Count: 254
Bibliography
Erickson, M.J. Christian Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group, 2013.
Lambert, H.A. Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2016.
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
Hi Damon,
17 M.J. Erickson. Christian Theology. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group, 2013) 783.
18 H.A. Lambert. Theology of Biblical Counseling. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2016) 179.
19 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
20 McQuilkin and Copan, 2017, 183.
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I agree that evolutionary ethics and creationism is incompatible. It is impossible to
believe that morals and ethics came from happenstance. It is easier to believe in God the creator
than to believe that everything came from nothing without any help from a creator. McQuilkin
and Copan explain that even if it was a possible truth (evolutionary ethics), it still would not
discount God. They go on to discuss that God created us with dignity because we were made in
His image the image of a “good God (Gen 1:26-27)”21 rather than products of “mindless,
impersonal, valueless, material forces.”22 We cannot change the opinion of others without the
help of the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity. Erickson says, “the Holy Spirit’s role
concerns His spiritual working upon and within humans.”23 Lambert reminds us that the Holy
Spirit is who makes real and lasting change possible.24 Just as you said it takes faith than the
Holy Spirit brings revelation to give understanding and stirs faith, this is how we can help others
see. The differences between evolution and creationism will never be resolved because they are
based into different realities. Evolution is based on science and biology, while creationism is
based on truth found in the Bible. McQuilkin and Copan says “Our basic moral awareness has a
robust moral framework anchored in a good, loving and just God. Given this context, we have
important resources for making moral judgments and living wisely in this world. The fear of the
Lord is indeed the beginning of wisdom.”25 Genesis 1:26-27, “Then God said, ‘Let Us make
man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over
the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creeps on the earth.’ God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.”26
Thank you for your post.
Ness
Word Count 403
Bibliography
Erickson, M.J. Christian Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group, 2013.
Lambert, H.A. Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2016.
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
21 Robert McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the way Wisdom (Downers
Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 2013), 181, MyWSB.
22 Ibid
23 M.J. Erickson. Christian Theology. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group, 2013) 783.
24 H.A. Lambert. Theology of Biblical Counseling. (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2016) 179.
25 McQuilkin and Copan, 2017, 183.
26 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
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Christopher,
Thank you for your post. The point that you are making is excellent and something that had not
crossed my mind regarding the “oughts.” You are right to say that if ethics is only for survival
and reproduction than nothing is necessarily out of bounds, no matter how horrific it could be
like the sex trade that is so prevalent right now. In saying this I do think there is one other thing
that is important to note. If we were created out of mindless matter, we would have no standing
or dignity and would be not better than the other creatures of the earth. We would be just another
animal waiting to continue our evolution through survival and reproduction. Yet God has called
us to help rule the earth. McQuilkin and Copan explains that we were made from the dust of the
ground by our triune God and He has granted humanity to be his image bearers which elevates
our standing to that of a co-ruling creation with Him as Kings and Priests (Gen 1:28).” 27
Revelation 5:10 says, “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God;
and they will reign upon the earth.”28 God gave us a purpose and a mission. Our purpose
is to be in a relationship with God and our mission is to share that love with all humanity that
does not know Him.
Thank you,
Ness
Word Count: 270
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
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1
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(NASB) says, “But if any of you lacks
wisdom
, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously
and without reproach, and it will be given to him.” During each session I take notes so that
I do not forget what we are talking about and can revisit in the next session if necessary. I
27 Robert McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the way Wisdom (Downers
Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 2013), 183, MyWSB..
28 Unless otherwise noted, all biblical passages referenced are in the New American Standard Bible (Chattanooga,
TN: AMG Publishers, 2008).
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would write down the things that I knew from about Jean so that I would know the best
approach.
1.
J
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2.
Mother abusive.
3.
Taken from her home and placed in foster care.
4.
New home with Christian foster parents.
5.
G
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l
if
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t
o
J
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s
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s
.
6.
Looking for love got involved in a sexual relationship.
7.
Feelings of guilt due to pregnancy.
8.
Fear!
The question is how the Doctrine of Christ and Holy Spirit would be used to minister to Jean.
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has forgiven her, so she did not need to walk in guilt and shame. 1 John 4:18 says, “There is
no fear in
love
; but
perfect love
casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the
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sins are forgiven, past, present and future, all our sins are forgiven. I would remind her of
Romans 8:1 which says, “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who
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,
are what heals our otherwise incurable problem of sin” (p. 147). I would remind her that
there is nothing that she could do that would separate her from God’s love according to
Romans 8:38-39. Lambert (2016) also says, “Every counselee needs God’s forgiveness of
their sins” (p. 150) which is part of the doctrine of Christ for forgiveness.
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Himself, he is part of the triune God. Erickson (2013) says, “the Holy Spirit’s role concerns
His spiritual working upon and within humans” (p. 783). First Holy Spirit convicts of
sin because when they are not believers, which has already happened because she is now a
believer; second is conviction concerning righteousness which is what has happened over
her pregnancy, the recognition of sin (Lambert, 2016, p. 162). The pregnancy is a
consequence of sin but would not separate her from God’s love because of His already
accomplished work at the cross. People when they do want wrong run away from God, yet
God is calling us to run directly to him as dearly loved children so he can walk with us
through the consequences of sin, in her case a new life. Lambert (2016) explains that "the
Holy Spirit must take the words of our biblical counsel and press them into the hearts of
people” (p. 163)
I would briefly talk about how this new life, although he or she did not come about in
marriage is still a precious gift from God. I would remind her that Psalm 139:13-14 says,
“For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to
You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” This verse is for her and for her baby who is
being formed in her womb. We would discuss this more in a later session.
Regarding her parents, I would talk to them about the unconditional love needed, in her case
because of the loss she has experienced in her life. She now more than ever needs their
lOMoARcPSD|266586 02
love and support spiritually, emotionally and relationally. Since they are believers, I would
remind them of the forgiveness of sin that God has for her and that we are called to be like
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would discuss the doctrine of Holy Spirit and how He is there to give them strength.
Lambert (2016) ends the chapter of the Doctrine of Holy Spirit by reminding us that Holy
Spirit is who makes real and lasting change possible (p. 179).
Word Count 764
References
Erickson, M. J. (2013). Christian Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group.
Lambert, H. A. (2016). Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
1 day ago
Deborah Grey
RE: DB 2 - Run to God
Hello Anissa,
CO LLAPSE
Thank you for a wonderful post that focuses on leading Jean and her foster parents back to the forgiving,
unconditional love of God. When we truly understand the depth of God's love for us, we will not allow guilt and fear
to control, but instead, allow God through his grace to care for us. Therefore, in times of trouble, we will run
towards him instead of running away. Reminding Jean of God's forgiveness will allow her to surrender herself back
to him, believing as the scripture says, "come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest"
(Matthew 11:28. New International Version). As counselors, we must encourage the counselee to put their trust in
Christ realizing that when we surrender our issues to the Lord, he will bring restoration and peace through the
working of the Holy Spirit. Lambert states "when Christians know that God is so intimately close, dwelling inside
of men, it changes the trouble they experience" (Lambert, 2016, p.164). Helping Jean and her foster parents
understand the unconditional love of God towards them will aim in repairing their relationship and strengthening the
bond between them. I also appreciate the fact that you took detailed notes regarding Jean's past and her current
issues. This will be helpful as you move forward establishing a counseling relationship.
Quote
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Reference
Lambert, H. A. (2016). A Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Hi Coalt,
Thank you for your post. It is so important to minister to Jean in using the doctrine of Christ.
Understanding forgiveness is so important for both Jean and her parents. This child is a precious
gift from God even though it was conceived out of marriage, so Jean must receive forgiveness
from Jesus so that she can also forgive herself for falling into this sin, forgive the father for
putting her in this place and to be able to receive forgiveness from her family as well. The Holy
Spirit is crucial to this counseling session as well, as you mentioned that he helps her understand
her guild and her need for Jesus. Lambert reminds us that the Holy Spirit uses our words and
puts them into the hearts of the people we are counseling (Lambert, 2016, 163). Erickson
explains that the Holy Spirit’s role is working inside each of us (Erickson, 2013, 783). It is
through the work of the Holy Spirit that she is going to understand John 4:18 which says, “There
is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one
who fears is not perfected in love.” She will be able to forgive and receive forgiveness and love
this new little one and receive love from her family as well. Holy Spirit plays a huge role in our
lives to show us the personal work of our triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Thank you,
Ness
Word Count: 246
References
Erickson, M. J. (2013). Christian Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group.
Lambert, H. A. (2016). Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Robin,
Thank you for a beautiful post. You are so right that they all are going are becoming effective
disciples for the kingdom. God has a way of taking our past failure and making them
steppingstones to our future to be used by Him in the lives of others. He is not up there going
“Oh, no! Now what am I going to do with them?” He is already turning those things around that
were meant to destroy them and using them for a beautiful future according to Jeremiah 29:11.
You said that the session is about helping Jean understand forgiveness that has given her liberty
in Christ. It is when she understands this, she can move forward in forgiving herself and her
boyfriend. It is so important to remember that Holy Spirit is at work in our lives and in our
hearts by pressing the words that we share into their hearts (Lambert, 2016, 163). This work
comes from the very role of Holy Spirit, in other words it is His job to work in our lives and
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hearts (Erickson, 2013, 783). When we understand that Holy Spirit is living inside of us, it
becomes an very intimate reality that changes the trouble someone is going through (Lambert,
2016, 164). This change can become a blessing when she realizes the beautiful life that is
growing inside her and how that God is putting this child together. Psalm 139:13-14 says, “For
You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You,
for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” It will be difficult, but God can and will give her the
grace to walk this out.
Thank you again for a beautiful post.
Ness
WC: 282
References
Erickson, M. J. (2013). Christian Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Publishing Group.
Lambert, H. A. (2016). Theology of Biblical Counseling. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
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In the chapter "Crime and Punishment" (429-443 in McQuilken and Copan), various
alternatives to prison are presented, and a short section deals with "Christian Responsibility
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the USA's continuing battle with illegal drug use. Consider the different possibilities and
Christian responses in this chapter, and defend, in your initial post, a possible way to deal
with minor drug offences that might be more effective than jail terms. You may want to do
some internet searching on the matter as well--and if so, include the sources at the bottom
of your initial thread. Four Hundred words--minimum (be sure to include the word count).
Due b
y
11:59 p.m. (ET) on Thursday of Module/Week 6.
In responses to at least two others, consider their proposals and especially ways that the
church might respond to this kind of crime, and how to minister to those who have been
incarcerated on mid-demeanor charges. Be specific, and couch your responses in light of
the Scriptures, and ideas drawn from your reading. 200 words minimum per response.
Due
by 11:59 p. m. (ET) on Sunday of Module/Week 6.
This is an interesting discussion as my family has some personal experience in this area.
My nephew was working a job and got a ride to work from some friends of his supervisor. On
the way to work they were stopped, and they found all the equipment to make meth in the truck
of the car. All were arrested for making meth, Austin never being around it explained the
situation but was arrested anyway. They had to hire a lawyer which cost us all a lot of money
because my sister was a single mom. The lawyer told him that no one would believe him and if
he did not take a plea deal then he would be convicted and would spend 10-12 years. Trusting
the lawyer, they said ok, he spent a year in jail. He had never been arrested, never been in
trouble with the law and yet he had to spend a year in jail and now it is on his permanent record.
It really messed him up and he came out of jail a lot worse than he went in by far and had a hard
time finding a job to support his little girl and wife at the time. He was 19. There is more to the
story but that is the brief version as the lawyer and the judge were working together with a work
camp to put young men in there and they were getting paid. It was a mess, nevertheless, he and
his family suffered. All over drugs. Sad to say there is a major drug business in the United
States and around the world. These drugs find their way into the hands of teenagers to adults and
ruin lives. It can even ruin the lives of those who are not involved. All American’s pay the price
for the incarceration, rehabilitation of those involved. The National Institute on Drug Abuse
reports that as of December 2018 drug abuse is down compared to the last twenty years and has
been this way for the last three years, however they believe it is due to punishment.29
My mother-in-law is a chaplain in the county jail where she has been the last ten years. She
explains all the time that you cannot punish it out of the people, they need the Lord. She talks
about all the time the return offenders who are not violent and that their should be something else
they can do because the jails are so full and most of them need detoxing and accountability and
29 NIDA, "Monitoring the Future Survey: High School and Youth Trends." National Institute on Drug Abuse, Dec.
2017, https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/monitoring-future-survey-high-school-youth-trends
(accessed June 18, 2019).
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counseling to overcome the drug abuse habit. The other thing she says is they need to stay busy,
the more idol they are the more they stay in trouble. Lastly, they are uneducated for the most
part and have no grounding in religion at all. I have worked with at risk teens, most had done
drugs at sometime or another and many of them started because of their own parent’s +drug
abuse or the physical abuse of their parents. This is a difficult situation and many opinions but
the best statement that I read was “the greatest contribution the Christian and the church can
make toward deterrence is to faithfully teach God’s holy standards and God’s holy judgment.”30
Regarding helping people who are involved in this situation, the biggest thing is education in
understanding who Jesus is and what He can truly do for them. Not everyone is cut out for jail
or prison ministry, there is a lot of spiritual warfare. Currently most inmates are claiming to be
pagans right now into worshiping various Greek and Roman mythological gods. They are
broken people who need people who can bravely go in, strongly administer Jesus through the
power of the Holy Spirit and not be afraid. Most volunteers do not last over coming one or two
times, the chaplains office is always looking for volunteers to help in the jails just not everyone
can do it, or can tough it out to get the experience to make a real difference.
People who have misdemeanors, I think community service would be a great help but in the right
places. Churches would be awesome if they can take the risk and responsibility. Many do not
want the risk and refuse letting “those kind of people” come do community service, again fear
rules. It is a step of faith but would be beneficial.
Word Count: 780
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com.
NIDA, "Monitoring the Future Survey: High School and Youth Trends." National Institute on
Drug Abuse, Dec. 2017, https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/monitoring-
future-survey-high-school-youth-trends accessed June 18, 2019.
30 Robert McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the way Wisdom (Downers
Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 2013), 443, MyWSB..
Justin,
Thank you for your response. It is difficult to see someone who has repented, paid their debt to society and then
to be blackballed from every job. I know that there has to be caution, but like you said the goal is rehabilitation
and then some sort of a path to reconnect with society. Just as you said Jesus gave us the most important path
back to himself. Punishment and laws are necessary, just like discipline and rules are part of our family and
children, however we must give people a way back.
Thank you again,
Ness
God was constantly offering the Israelites a way to repent and come back to him…even after they turned
away from him and broke his law constantly.
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Justin,
Thank you for your response. It is difficult to see someone who has repented, paid their debt to society and then
to be blackballed from every job. I know that there has to be caution, but like you said the goal is rehabilitation
and then some sort of a path to reconnect with society. Just as you said Jesus gave us the most important path
back to himself. Punishment and laws are necessary, just like discipline and rules are part of our family and
children, however we must give people a way back.
Thank you again,
Ness
Kellee,
Thank you for a great post. It was very thought provoking. I agree that there are many facets to
this complicated subject. The hard part is every situation is different. However, we know that
God always offered the Jewish people a way to repent and be restored back to Him even though
they broke His laws over and over.31 You are also right that God has told his people to look help
them Matthew 25:43-46. It is difficult for many as they are afraid of the unknown.
When a child does something wrong, we give a punishment that deters them from wanting to
break the rule again but does not destroy them. Many of the punishments today, not only
punishes them but continues even after they have paid their debt to society and destroys them. It
follows them forever even if it is a non-violent crime. There are some that can afford to pay
hefty fines, there are some that cannot and end up in jail again because they could not pay the
fine. Finding a job after a crime is difficult, when you add the pressure of paying lots of money
and no way for them to do it. Is that not forcing them into crime sometimes? One thing that
would be important is mandatory counseling of some kind to get to the bottom of what is going
on in their lives. They need to be given purpose and made to feel that they are important but
need the consequences of their actions to deter future crimes. Churches need to be in involved,
but it is a difficult. The people you are working with are hard, rude and disrespectful. They push
you away at every turn to see if you can really love them. This type of help is hard for most
because the people are hard to work with generally. They need Jesus and accountability.
Thank you again for your post it was excellent.
Ness
Word Count: 347
Bibliography
McQuilkin, Robertson & Paul Copan. An Introduction to Biblical Ethics. Downers Grove, IL:
InterVarsity Press, 2017. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com
31 J Robertson McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the Way of
Wisdom, third ed. (Downers Grove, IL: IVP, an imprint of InterVarsity Press, 2014), 433.
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Ubong,
You had a tremendous post. You are so right that this is an opportunity for churches to be in a
playground of unbelievers who are desperate for Jesus. Having worked with at risk teens, they
do not know that they were created with purpose. They do not understand that God has a great
plan for their lives and their past is a steppingstone to their future. God can take those things that
were meant to destroy them and turn it around for His glory in their lives. I believe that
counseling, along with classes on purpose, passion and purity would be so beneficial for young
people caught in drug crimes. God always offered the Jewish people a way to repent and be
restored back to Him even though they broke His laws over and over.32 I have a friend that said
he received more acceptance in a bar than he ever received in a church. The teens I have worked
with just expected judgment and not acceptance for religious people. Yet Jesus loved the sinners,
sent his disciples out to the people to show His love to them. Churches, believers must show the
love Jesus in practical ways, be strong and courageous and step out in faith to see God move in
such a way it will change lives.
Thank you for your post, it was excellent.
Ness
Word Count: 249
32 J Robertson McQuilkin and Paul Copan, An Introduction to Biblical Ethics: Walking in the Way of
Wisdom, third ed. (Downers Grove, IL: IVP, an imprint of InterVarsity Press, 2014), 433.
