Ryan Vance
Dr. Miller
GOVT 329
January 23, 2020
Discussion Board Forum 2
The relationship between the institutions of Church and State has been a long-debated
topic since the founding of this nation. The proper relationship between the church and state is
that the church should be an advisory role to state policy. According to Eric Metaxas, “…the one
thing that was necessary for self-government – and the United States – to exist and function was
religion, but religion itself could not properly function unless religion were detached from the
government” (Metaxas). The church would be grounded in both a moral conviction and a
determination that the laws benefit all citizens equally. The Church position houses two
fundamental views that should influence public policy. The first is the belief in conviction, that
all human beings bare the image of God, therefore they should all be treated with dignity,
respect, and equality. The second position would be to ensure that love is at the root of public
policy. Love, from a biblical conviction, would require laws to exist for the benefit of others and
bare no self-interest. These convictions are grounded wholly in the mission and purpose of the
church. Jesus only gave one command to his followers, which was to love as he loved. That love,
when applied to human laws, means that the people administering them live and serve to the
benefit of those they have responsibility for. Without these moral convictions, laws could easily
become tyrannical or prejudicial, benefiting only minorities of the populous. The separation
between Church and State, from the views of our founding fathers, was that the State should not
be able to control the Church. They should remain wholly separate institutions who would
partner to ensure the peace and prosperity of its citizens. The State without the Church would be
amoral, having no grounding in absolute morality. The Church represents the groundings of the
teachings of God for how humans were designed to flourish and form just communities. That is
why our founding fathers believed that both of these institutions should be protected and
separate, but their separation was never intended to be an isolation. Our founding fathers
believed that for a free society to operate, that the teachings of the church needed to be at the root
of how humans interacted with one another. Otherwise, selfishness, greed, and corruption could
flourish in an amoral society.
Metaxas, Eric. If You Can Keep It.. [Liberty University Online Bookshelf].
Replies:
Talisha Polk
Dear Talisha,
I noticed through your post that you have a very similar view to mine on the relationship
between Church and State. I enjoyed how you explained the true relationship that must
ultimately exist between Church and State is connected to the hearts of man. I liked you George
Washington comparison in saying that a national church or religion should not ne established.
However, Christianity and morality must infiltrate our governmental institutions in order to
ensure that are foundational core does not collapse because of the weight of other religions and
foreign ideals. It is imperative that Judeo-Christian values circulate through our government, law
and judicial institutions, as it ensures that morality, justice and equity are carried out. With this in
mind, having separate institutions provides the balance that the government needs. According to
Eric Metaxas,"...[Benjamin] Franklin understood the inherent value of virtue in society, apart
from what it was that made one virtuous, whether it religion or simple cultural habit, or a
combination of the two." [1] The Church shouldn’t have the power to control the government,
but the Church should have an enough of a presence in society that the principles and morals of
the Church seep into law.
Eric Metaxas. If You Can Keep It: The Forgotten Promise of American Liberty. New York:
Penguin Books, 2017.
Dear Brian,
Your post was very informative, and I appreciated how you delineated and discussed the true
reasoning behind the separation of Church and State. You are correct in stating that self-
government comes down to one’s ability to be virtuous as a person and hold their own morality
accountable. But where does this idea come from? I believe the answer lies with the true
relationship of Church and State and that is one not of pure separation. According to Eric
Metaxas, Ben Franklin notes that, “Only a virtuous people, are capable of freedom” [1]. A people
must possess personal responsibility, morality and good character in order for their nation’s
greatness to be preserved for years to come. All of these attributes come from Judeo-Christian
ideals and its imperative that America’s people recognize the importance of maintaining a state
of morality and understanding that we are one nation under God. The key to America’ success
economically, militarily, and governmentally is that we comprehend that God is at the forefront
of all of our interests. American democracy and Christian beliefs go hand in hand and no
democratic government can stand alone on a weak foundation, that is not God himself.
[1] Eric Metaxas. If You Can Keep It: The Forgotten Promise of American Liberty. New York:
Penguin Books, 2017.
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