LASA 1—Analysis of Historical, Legal, and Ethical Issues

TRANSCRIPT:

Is Love Enough?

written by Tom Puchniak; directed by Tom Puchniak; produced by Alan Handel (New York, NY: Filmakers Library, 2001), 45 mins

http://search.alexanderstreet.com.libproxy.edmc.edu/view/work/1784645

APA citation: Puchniak, T. (Director), & Handel, A. (Producer). (2001). Is Love Enough? [Video file]. Filmakers Library. Retrieved March 17, 2016, from Academic Video Online: Premium. 

fL Filmakers Library, Inc. New York , N.Y. PRESENTS Alan Handel Productions III Inc.

00:25 We want a child like everybody else. We have abilities. We don’t look at her disability.

00:30 Just because we're disabled, it doesn't mean we can't at least try.

00:35 Dennis Lint I don’t think they should have children. I think the risk is too great.

00:45 How would you feel if the kid's retarded or… or normal? I said, "I don’t care how the kid is, at least I will love it."

00:55 Sue But you have to think of the child. It’s just… It’s not fair.

Mary Ann But I don’t really regret anything that I've done, because everything that I have done has made me who I am and I think despite everything that I've turned out okay.

01:05 I… I really want a child, badly …and I’d be a good mom.

01:15 [sil.]

01:20 C. David Johnson Who has the right to be a parent? It's the most elemental and the most demanding of human responsibilities. A task that many people feel is far too difficult to be managed by a retarded person. Yet, today an estimated 100,000 children are born every year to retarded parents in North America and we still know relatively little about this phenomenon. The intellectually-disabled say they can provide all the devotion a baby requires, but a growing child may need much more than love.

02:00 Is Love Enough? Written & Directed by Tom Puchniak Produced by Alan Handel

02:15 Mike Godman Batshaw Family Services, Montreal You can look at a number of intellectually handicapped adults and you'll see someone who visually looks like a… an adult, but you have to remember that this person may be functioning at an intellectual and an emotional stage that could be closer to eight, nine, ten, which begs the question, "Would you be comfortable with an eight, nine-year-old or 10-year-old caring full time for your child?

02:35 00:02:40] Madonna Fradsham Assn For Community Living Many people with intellectual disabilities are short-changed and people don’t expect enough of them and therefore, you know, people decide that they are not capable before they are even given a chance.

02:50 Dave Hingsburger Author/Consultant You have to realize in one generation people with disabilities have gone from being idiots and morons to neighbors and friends and that’s been quite a journey.

03:00 [sil.]

03:05 C. David Johnson For hundreds of years, western society regarded the mentally retarded as sad accidents of nature to be closeted behind walls of secrecy and silence. Thousands were forcibly sterilized in an attempt to erase the genetic stain of their misfortune. But scientists now know that barely 10% of mental retardation is passed on genetically. The most common causes are illness during pregnancy and traumatic injuries to the brain. The last sterilization wards were shut down in the 1970’s , but many of the attitudes which spawned them remain. And the controversy over the ability of the retarded to be adequate parents is far from over.

04:00 [sil.]

04:05 Atlantic Canada

04:10 C. David Johnson We cannot identify the woman whose story we are about to tell, because she was involved in legal action with child welfare. We'll call her Susan . Susan has an intellectual disability. Fifteen years ago, she had a baby boy. Within months, child welfare officials decided she couldn't handle the child and seized it for adoption. Two and a half years ago, she had another baby, a girl. Once again, child welfare took the child away.

04:40 Susan Purcell I ask one thing in life is to see my child growing up. You don’t know how hard it… hard it is not to see a child growing up, like having one child die just like Mary losing her child.

05:05 [sil.]

05:10 C. David Johnson It is a frequent occurrence: the child of a mentally disabled parent removed by a social welfare system that doubts the parents' ability to raise and educate her. Most of the time, the parents do not contest the decision. But Susan decided to fight back. She felt she was getting a raw deal and so did the local association for community living, which works with intellectually disabled people. Madonna Fradsham is an Anglican minister and executive director of the association.

05:45 Madonna Fradsham I didn’t know whether she was going to be a good parent or not, nor did anyone else, but the period of time that they had granted her was not enough time for them to determine whether she was going to be a good parent to that child.

06:00 C. David Johnson The association decided to use Susan and her baby as a test case for the rights of intellectually disabled parents to raise their children. The child’s father is also mentally disabled, but Susan had broken up with him and he is not part of the case.

06:15 [sil.]

06:20 C. David Johnson The Department of Child Welfare would not comment on camera, but it's position in court was blunt.

06:25 We cannot recommend that an adult of diminished capacity take on responsibilities they cannot shoulder, when such a decision would place a dependent infant at risk.

06:40 C. David Johnson The judge compromised. He decided to give Susan a carefully controlled opportunity to demonstrate her fitness as a mother. The child was placed in a foster home. Susan was allowed weekly visits under constant surveillance by a child welfare worker. How she handled the baby would be crucial to her chances of getting her back, because the early months are critical in a baby’s life.

07:10 Mike Godman Given what we know now in terms of a child’s development, we're much more careful in terms of having to make decisions, the right decision at the right point in time, because if that decision isn’t made, that child’s development forever is jeopardized so that you can’t give a parent five years to make the necessary changes, because that’s not in the best interest of that child.

07:35 C. David Johnson Child welfare workers compiled a growing list of concerns about Susan’s attempts to feed and care for her baby. They continued to feel the child was at risk. Although Susan had been a trusted babysitter over the years, social workers reported she was doing things like bathing her daughter in water that was dangerously hot.

08:00 Dolores Crane Susan’s lawyer And consistently I saw that over and over in the notes(ph), and my point was always if… if she wasn’t that capable that she couldn't tell hot water from cold water, don’t you think at this stage in her life that we would have found out that through these other children that she had taken care of, or through herself? I mean, if the woman didn’t know how hot the water was, you think she would have scalded herself.

08:25 C. David Johnson Susan admits that she was unprepared for her first baby 15 years ago, but since then, she has lived on her own, worked in a fast food restaurant, and returned to school to improve on her grade five education. She rejects the charges that she is incapable of caring responsibly for her daughter or herself.

08:45 Susan Purcell That’s not true. I can think on my own. I’ve been looking after myself for 18 years. I’m bit of a slow learner… but I can catch on.

09:05 C. David Johnson The deck was stacked against Susan from the start. She grew up one of eight children in a shattered, violent household. All eight were removed to foster homes, which were not much safer. Child welfare officials used Susan’s dismal upbringing to argue against her fitness as a parent. She was separated from her sisters at an early age. They all live in another city.

09:35 My parents were alcoholics. There was abuse, never had a… stable family home at all. None.

09:45 I will tell she remains sitting in the chair, belt tie… or tied to the chair, belted around for no reason at all.

09:50 And if she peed in the chair, she'd get for it to get even twice as now.

10:00 Susan Purcell Every night, when I’d go to bed, my foster father molested me.

10:05 Did you ever say anything to anybody?

10:10 Susan Purcell I told the social worker and they didn’t believe me. They didn’t do nothing.

10:20 [sil.]

10:25 C. David Johnson After an 18-month battle, Susan won a partial victory, the right to take her daughter home, but only under the close supervision of child welfare workers.

10:35 Susan Purcell Put this color on, put this color. Too high.

10:40 [sil.]

10:45 Put the other one.

Susan Purcell Yeah, the other one.

10:50 C. David Johnson The social workers continued to have concerns. They said she had trouble measuring out the right amount of medicine. She took too long to dress and feed her daughter, and showed a high level of anxiety, which affected her ability to solve problems. Her lawyer felt Susan was being held to a different standard than any other parent.

11:15 Dolores Crane My client was under a microscope, and every time the director’s workers who would asked her questions, she was always petrified of saying the wrong answer and the more that she didn’t get the right answer the more nervous she became in terms of doing the chores and so on.

11:35 C. David Johnson Susan’s sisters offered to share the child raising duties, an arrangement that has helped ease the burden on mentally disabled parents in the past. When child welfare declined their offer, the sisters were dismayed by the decision.

11:50 They set her up to take a fall. It’s almost like that.

I think they actually went after her and they made her feel stupid.

11:55 They put her in situations to make sure she fails them.

12:00 Yes, she is not stupid.

They gave her a test, a math test…

Yeah.

…which she passed the 100%, but they had to test her math skills, like she… that… that… I… I had never heard of someone being tested for math to become a parent, because I don’t know if I do too good.

12:15 And that's why she is taking courses now to better herself…

Yeah, she has been taken…

12:20 She has been, yeah. So what does that tell them? They should tell them like, “hey she is trying.”

12:25 Oh, she jumped too far.

You know.

12:30 C. David Johnson Susan does have help raising her child.

Susan Purcell Hello.

12:35 Madonna Fradsham Hi.

Susan Purcell How are you?

Madonna Fradsham How are you?

C. David Johnson Madonna Fradsham was touched by Susan’s determination, and impressed by her ability to learn and grow. She began as Susan’s official advocate, but has become her daily confidant and closest friend.

12:45 Madonna Fradsham She learns from watching other people. A prime example is first when… ah… when her daughter came home, she really wasn’t sure how to cuddle her and how to hold her and all those kinds of things, but her experience hadn’t been a loving family where people loved you and kissed you, and said I love you and you are beautiful, and you are special to me, and all those kinds of things. So others showed her how to do that. And today there is just this wonderful bond between mother and child.

13:25 (inaudible ).

13:30 Susan Purcell Make ‘em smell nice and good. Love you. I love you.

13:40 C. David Johnson Susan’s daughter is now a healthy and normal two and a half year old. But one of the greatest concerns with intellectually disabled parents is whether their limited reading and verbal skills will hinder the child’s education in years to come.

13:55 Susan Purcell I think that was the end of the story. Now, teddy is sleeping. (inaudible ) about to sleep.

14:05 Madonna Fradsham You know what’s really interesting about this mother is that in the beginning over and over again, she would say, "If I know I can’t do it, I will let her be adopted. If when I try, I can’t do it, I would let her go, because I love her."

14:30 Susan Purcell Can you do it? Can you do it?

Madonna Fradsham She certainly would not be willing to do it today, because she has proven over and over again that she can parent this child.

14:40 [sil.]

14:50 C. David Johnson The test case continues. The Department of Child Welfare is going back to court. It wants to continue to monitor the mother and child. Susan just wants them out of her life.

15:05 Susan Purcell I didn’t have a chance in life, but how… but now I do, because she is my last child I'm ever going to have. She is my pride and joy, she is my life. It's not fair what you people are doing to me. I love her and I… and I know I could be a mother to her, if you give me a chance.

15:35 C. David Johnson In some ways, infancy is the easiest time for a parent. The child’s needs are simple. But what happens as the child grows older and begins to outgrow the parent, that can be a difficult experience.

15:50 (inaudible ).

16:05 C. David Johnson Can the child of retarded parents possibly turn out normal? Mary Ann lives in Victoria , British Colombia . She is 20 years old, and is going to college and pursuing a career in music. To get to where she is today, she had to overcome a major handicap. Both of her parents are intellectually disabled.

16:30 (inaudible ).

16:35 Mary Ann I love my life. I'm a very happy person and um… and I’m very grateful that… that my parents had me, but to be honest, if you take away my grandparents, if you take away all the support of people that I had in my high school, I wouldn't have turned out well at all, I don't believe, and I think that's just simply not fair. You can talk about the rights of the parents, which obviously they have, but you also need to consider what's in the best interest of the child, and having parents who just can’t give you what you need is not in your best interests.

17:20 C. David Johnson Mary Ann’s parents almost didn’t have a child. When Mary Ann’s mother was a teenager, the family doctor recommended that she be sterilized, but her parents refused. Four years later, she got married and Mary Ann was born.

17:40 [sil.]

17:45 C. David Johnson Mary Ann’s mother and father raised her until she was four, confident that they were successful parents. But Mary Ann’s grandparents saw signs that she was being neglected and took her in themselves. They showered her with attention and stimulated an interest in reading, dancing, and sports. By the age of eight, they felt she was old enough to safely return to her parents. But within a few years, she realized that something was not normal.

18:15 Mary Ann We lived in a fairly nice neighborhood and there was a lot of neighborhood kids around, but a lot of times they weren't allowed to come over to our house, because my parents were different. I think when I really clearly realized it was in grade seven and I was about to start attacking my math homework and I couldn’t figure out the very first problem. So I asked my dad to come and help me and he couldn’t figure it out for the life of him and neither could my mom. I was very, very angry. I… I am… I threw the textbook across the room and I was just throwing things and knocking things over and… and yelling, and I can't remember exactly what I was saying. But I remember being very angry and upset.

19:15 C. David Johnson By the age of 14, Mary Ann’s schoolwork and her anger were far beyond her parents' command. She needed help.

19:20 Mary Ann The woman who was the… was the counselor at our school, had looked all over the city and actually, I think that she also looked throughout Vancouver Island to see if there were any types of groups or even any other people who were… who were my age, who were going through similar experience and she came up with nothing.

19:40 C. David Johnson Her grandparents were no longer able to take her back in, so in desperation, they called on Mary Ann’s aunt Sue , who quit her job in Montreal and moved to Victoria to take over for the struggling parents.

19:55 Sue They've always loved Mary Ann . They were able to love her. That… That's never… That was never ever the issue. They were able to care for her needs in the sense of understanding, she needed supper and understanding that she needed, you know, the house to be warm, and that sort of stuff. They… And this is the nature of their disability to a certain extent. Anyway, they have difficulty understanding abstracts. So if you say, you know, you have to put food on the table for Mary Ann supper every night, they'll say great, they'll do it every night. But when Mary Ann comes home in tears, because somebody has said something mean to her or she is frustrated, because she couldn't understand something in school or she… any of those things they couldn't understand.

20:35 C. David Johnson Mary Ann was failing courses, staying out all night, and close to dropping out of school. She thought her aunt’s arrival would be a holiday. It turned out to be a crash course in self-discipline with a rigid curfew and hours of pounding the books.

20:55 Mary Ann Well, she got really involved and she basically took the parental role in my life and since I hadn’t really had that before, it… it wasn't at all how I expected it. It was not pleasant for the first while.

21:15 C. David Johnson The angry young rebel was transformed into a dedicated student.

21:20 Peter Gubbles Teacher Well, she changed dramatically, largely because her aunt came out from the east coast to help her along. I think that was very significant. I know that her music teacher here really took an interest in her, and cultivated in her an interest in music and singing, and she discovered actually that she really likes being in the choir, and I really think that this helps her with her confidence.

21:45 Fine morning (inaudible ) was I…

21:55 C. David Johnson This discovery of an aptitude for music gave a whole new direction to Mary Ann’s life.

22:00 (inaudible ).

22:05 Mary Ann Music is a very important aspect of my life. It's basically my future. I want to be a music therapist and that's a large part of… of my happiness.

22:15 I see what (inaudible ).

22:20 Mary Ann Right now, I‘m studying theory and I take private voice lessons and piano lessons and next year hopefully I'm transferring to UVic as a voice major.

22:35 [sil.]

22:40 C. David Johnson Every week Mary Ann reenters a world that once caused her such anguish as a child. She volunteers at a center for the intellectually disabled where she can use her own experience to help others. Most of these disabled adults are not able to live on their own and so they are not likely to become parents. But 80% of people with intellectual disabilities suffer only a mild form of retardation. They are the less visibly disabled like Mary Ann’s parents.

23:10 Sue Well, it's not easy to know, because they are highly functional. Mary Ann's father drives. They… They own their own home and keep their own home with no problem, but they don’t understand some concepts. They don’t understand the concept of credit. They don’t understand that when you have a credit card and you spend money that, you know, over the month end it seems you can keep going to the hole in the wall, and taking out money and you go into a store and buy anything and at the end of the month, the bill comes and it says you only owe $100. They think that's wonderful. Trying to… to have them understand what the concept of interest has… has been very, very, very, difficult. They are very open to being taken advantage of.

23:50 C. David Johnson And so Mary Ann has become her parents' unofficial guardian and asked that they not be interviewed for this film.

24:00 Mary Ann I've always had a sense of feeling like I need to protect them. Um… Um… If I feel for… for any moment that somebody is going to hurt them, or is going to take advantage of them, I… It’s almost an instinctive thing that I get in the pit of my stomach and just anger rises, just that I… that I need to protect them, that I need to… to… to make sure that they won’t get hurt, and that’s been there for as long as I can remember. It really is, I can only imagine that that would be a similar feeling to how a parent feels towards their children.

24:45 [sil.]

24:50 C. David Johnson When Mary Ann graduated from high school with an average in the 70's, it was a major triumph for herself and for her parents.

24:55 Mary Ann They don’t necessarily express really easily their feelings towards me, but they were proud. You can see it. You could see it in their faces, and my dad, especially, was very proud of me. He figures that I take after him in being very ambitious and… and motivated and wanting to get things done.

25:25 Lord, I know I've been changed The angels in the heaven done sign my name Lord I know I've been changed…

25:35 C. David Johnson Mary Ann is now thriving, thanks to the sacrifices made by her grandparents and her aunt. She says she loves her parents, but has strong feelings about the fact that they are her parents and that leaves her caught in a strange paradox.

25:50 Mary Ann The issue is not people with developmental disabilities having children, it’s whether or not they can actually do what they need to do to be good parents to them. And so I… if… if there were social workers that could be there 24 hours, then… then I would say go for it, but the reality just is that there isn’t, and that does sound very hypocritical, but um… I don’t think people with developmental disabilities should be having children at this point in time.

26:25 C. David Johnson But across North America , thousands of intellectually disabled men and women are becoming parents. And only a handful of cities have social agencies ready to cope with the children of parents caught between their disabilities and their desires.

26:40 [sil.]

26:50 C. David Johnson In Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania , a unique organization is helping mentally retarded parents overcome obstacles that they could not conquer on their own.

27:05 Vincent And squash you, you mesh when you know.

27:10 'Mo'.

Vincent 'Mo'.

Oh, good job. Okay. Fran , come here, Vincent . Mummy, daddy is reading to you. Okay.

27:20 Fran Harry, Harry, how…

C. David Johnson The organization works with couples like Vincent and Fran . They need help with everyday tasks such as reading, banking, and medical appointments, and especially with their son, Vincent Jr. .

27:40 Fran I always wanted a baby. Baby is nice to take care of, you know, they smell so good, they're nice and soft. I always wanted a baby. I always dreamed of having a baby.

27:50 Vincent They are fun to play with, and I always wanted to be a dad.

27:55 C. David Johnson When Fran became pregnant, Vincent’s parents urged her to have an abortion, but she refused. Vincent and Fran did agree to give the child up for adoption, but at the last minute they changed their minds. The grandparents were now faced with a dilemma.

28:20 Marcia Lint Grandmother Well, we were kind of devastated actually, because they… both of them have problems and we were afraid that their child would have problems too and it would be another child to raise in addition to helping Vinnie and Franny .

28:35 Dennis Lint Grandfather I didn’t want them to have the baby, because for one real thing I knew that I couldn't be around forever to help take care of it and honestly I don’t want to… at that time I don’t want the responsibility of it. I figured, I signed the one for… for one and this was not a good idea, and plus I really believe that the child would probably have problems.

29:00 C. David Johnson But the child couldn't have picked a better city in which to be born. Pittsburgh is the home of a pioneering organization called ARC Allegheny funded by government and private sources.

29:15 (inaudible ).

29:30 C. David Johnson Founded in the 1950’s , ARC Allegheny offers full-time support to people with an IQ below 70. As their clients began to have children, ARC saw they needed help, because the children were showing signs of retardation, even though they were born with normal intelligence. So they began a program called ESPRIT to show the parents how to stimulate their children.

29:55 Margie Myers ESPRIT You know a lot of them don’t understand the importance of play with their child. The important thing is the stimulation. If that’s missing, these children can grow up with all kind of learning disabilities. And once they have a learning disability and they enter to schools, they are sometimes automatically labeled mentally retarded. So if we give to these children in an early age like we do birth on up and teach the parents how to stimulate their children, how to talk to their children and play with them like I was talking about, there is no reason for these children in their schools mental retardation.

30:25 Joy Meadows Remember Fran , tell him what he's eating. Are you eating (inaudible ). And remember you have to always talk to him.

30:35 Say yum, yum, yum.

C. David Johnson The ESPRIT workers such as Joy Meadows become virtual co-parents, helping with everything from housework to homework. Joy visits Fran and Vincent twice a week and monitors the child’s development. In order to keep an eye on the child, the grandparents leased an apartment for Fran and Vincent above their own business office. Their initial resistance to young Vincent has given way to a warm embrace, but they worry about his future and that of his parents.

31:05 Dennis Lint He brings a lot of happiness to everyone he touches. He's a special baby. I don’t view him as a… as a… as a problem, and I'm hoping that he is perfect to me, he is perfectly normal, smart little boy. And maybe when the time comes that I can't assist or help take care of Vinnie and Frances that their son might be able to step in and… and take over where his mother and I have left off. So I think it's maybe a… a gift from God.

31:40 Marcia Lint I think when he goes to school, he will need some help with his homework, more than what his parents can give and I believe that at some point if it's not controlled, Vinnie will… little Vinnie will be able to pretty much outsmart the parents and that’s a concern. But as far as loving him, (inaudible ) talks.

32:06 You like Alma?

32:10 Very nice.

Fran My dream is for… I want him to be the smartest kid in the class. That’s what I want. I want my baby to be smart, you know, other kids get jealous, (inaudible ) papers, I know he can do that. I want him to be smart and then I see him graduate, and I'll be so happy to see him do that.

32:35 Easy E E E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T…

32:40 C. David Johnson Whatever Vincent Jr.'s potential, the odds are good that he will attain it, because of all the help he will get along the way.

32:50 …Y Z now I know my ABCs next time won't you sing with me?

32:55 Kevin Kaufman Okay, next one. 'A' comes blank in the alphabet. A is… is… is… there are 26 letters in the alphabet, okay?

33:10 First?

Kevin Kaufman You got it. You said it.

I need help.

Kevin Kaufman Okay, what kind of help

33:15 Number 10.

Kevin Kaufman Number 10.

C. David Johnson The children will all need help when they go to school, because they generally outgrow their parents mental capacity by the age of eight. Where there are no relatives or friends to help, the ESPRIT workers like Kevin Kaufman become the children’s tutor. These children have both a father and mother at home, but they are the exception. Most of ESPRIT clients are single mothers trying to raise their children on welfare.

33:45 Kevin Kaufman ESPRIT A lot of moms, I think, in my opinion are taken advantage of sometimes by the men, you know, um… you know, for that check was so to say, you know, that money that they get that SSI, you know, and they… they are in and out of their lives so much, you know, we have very few families I believe that have their father figure, you know, all the time, but it's difficult. It's difficult enough, you know, with the retardation, but then being a single parent and with the child, trying to raise the child on their own.

34:15 [sil.]

34:20 C. David Johnson Although retarded adults have the legal right to bear children, that does not exempt them or their children from ridicule and humiliation. Parents in the ESPRIT program like Diane have lived with it all their lives.

34:35 Diane Janna I had problems with that when I was growing up. I don’t mind saying if I could do it over again… I’d be somebody else, which I can’t. I’m just myself and I take it one day at a time.

34:55 Diane Janna Somehow pretty you look, yes, she is going to be a movie star.

35:05 No.

Diane Janna No. Why not?

35:10 You can.

Diane Janna Me?

35:15 C. David Johnson Children may not inherit their parents' mental disabilities, but they are the unwilling heirs to the stigma of retardation.

35:25 Diane Janna I know I'm a little different form them, in looks… …that really doesn’t bother me. Because my kids, I don’t think they really notice it. But other people do. There's a lot of teenagers make fun of me. I just let it go in one ear and out the other.

35:55 C. David Johnson ESPRIT was originally intended to help parents only during their children’s early years. But they've now decided to follow the children until age 18, because they've discovered they face serious emotional problems when they enter school and realize their parents are different. To deal with that, ESPRIT has started a special therapeutic playgroup.

36:20 Bryan (ph), you told me that someone called your mother mentally retarded. You remember when that happened? I can't… and you felt very bad. Did you get to talk to anyone about that Bryan (ph) after that happened? Okay. There is always someone out there, an adult, who will be glad to talk to you, to listen to you, if it's not your teacher or someone, your parents, you can always come to us here at kids club and talk to us about it.

36:45 Margie Myers There is a lot of anger there, a lot of frustration, suicidal ideation in some of the boys have shown up already at the age of eight. So it's very… it's very sad and it's something that took us unaware, because we had no idea this was going on and we don't know what’s going to happen either down the road when they become teenagers, because they are still going to be in our program. We try to explain to them everything that's going on and try to instill in them the respect for their parents, because their parents love them just like any other parents love their children in an understanding of mental retardation where they are not getting any kind of information, any… anywhere else.

37:25 What do you think she feels? I think she means what you feel happy when you get away from it. So write it down.

37:30 You write it down.

Kevin Kaufman It gives them a chance to be with other children who have parents who are mentally retarded, you know, and to find out that, you know, we're not the only… I'm not the only one that, you know, has a parent that has a few problems, you know, and talk amongst themselves and a couple of the… the girls have become… in age, that are close in age have become good friends. It really seems to help them to know, like… like I said, that they can talk with somebody that has a familiar problem.

38:00 Margie Myers I mean, the 50's and 60's mentality about mental retardation still exists today. We have to go and fight for their rights with lawyers, doctors, with courts, and we do it. We do whatever it takes, but we'll be the first ones to step in and say that we don’t feel that this family can’t raise this child alone, even with support. So we would be the first ones to say that, because the child comes first. But in majority of the cases with a little bit of support, these families, they can stay together and they can raise their children in a nice healthy atmosphere.

38:30 I think it's going to help, that's good.

38:35 C. David Johnson Only a handful of North American cities have services for retarded parents as comprehensive as ESPRIT. The waiting lists are long and dozens of Vincent juniors are being born every day. And now, one retarded couple wants to go one step further. They want to raise somebody else’s child.

39:00 I, Richard Joseph Mine .

Richard Joseph Mine I Richard Joseph Mine .

39:05 Take you, Karen .

Richard Joseph Mine Take you Karen .

To be my wife.

Richard Joseph Mine To be my wife.

39:10 C. David Johnson Richard and Karen were married in Windsor , Ontario in 1995 . Both are intellectually disabled and both are committed activists for the rights of the handicapped. They want a family, but Karen is unable to have children. So now they want to push their rights one step further. They want to be one of the first intellectually disabled couples in North America to adopt a child.

39:35 Richard Joseph Mine We're both being successful either by volunteering our community or working in our community, having real jobs and giving back. We don’t rely on the government for funding. But the thing is, we want to do it, it’s something we believe in and we deserve a chance like everybody else in this province. But society looks us… us different than anybody else. That’s what really bugs me. That’s what really hurts me. Don’t do it. Don’t judge.

40:15 C. David Johnson But they will be judged by an adoption agency with the duty to find the best possible home for the children in its care. Karen argues that her years of experience as a babysitter a proof that she is qualified to be a mother. She and her husband are determined to become parents.

40:40 Karen I really love kids, that’s why I want to have a child badly. I care about kids. I talked to my friend, before her baby was born… It was really hard for me, I always cried a lot. When I babysat one-year olds, two-month olds… I liked to share with people and they gave me hugs… they'd say "Someday you'll have a child" …it will take a long time.

41:20 C. David Johnson As they seek a child of their own, Richard and Karen will be fighting long odds. Adoption agencies have waiting lists of potential parents and their standards to adopt a child are very high. They will have to convince the adoption agency that their love is enough.

41:35 Mike Godman I would say in terms of adoption issues that the threshold would be higher. When it has been decided by a court or by a parent that they are no longer capable of caring for their child and you have a termination of parental rights, then I believe that the state has an obligation to ensure that the best parents possible are the parents that are provided for that child.

42:00 Richard Joseph Mine Just because we talk different, just because we hear different, just because we look different, there is something we have to offer is love between each other and for that child, and that’s the most warm feeling that child really needs, because he has come from a family that was broke down, but you know, even if you're so-called normal, whatever the word normal is, you can give that child a million dollars, what would it, what would the child take is the love. If adoption goes through, there will be three of us. He or she, it don’t matter, even if the child's disabled, everybody has a void, and this is our void. Give us a chance.

42:55 [sil.]

43:05 C. David Johnson Centuries of padlocked wards and forced sterilization are now history, consigned to the dustbin of obsolete attitudes.

43:15 [sil.]

43:20 C. David Johnson Today, the intellectually disabled have the legal right and the human desire to be parents. The result is a new kind of family, a poignant and complex controversy and a new ledger of human experience.

43:35 Dave Hingsburger It would be kind of counterproductive to say, "Well, we don’t know if they can parent." So we probably shouldn’t let them. I think the issue is, they are human beings with certain rights and they have a right to be parents.

43:50 Sue I understand that they've got an innate right to… to do what they want to, but the kids have a right too, and the kids have a right to a securing, stimulating, upbringing, and… and if that can't be provided, then we, as a society, have to say, "We are going to provide it."

44:10 C. David Johnson There will be more and more intellectually disabled parents. Caught in the middle are the children themselves, children who need love, laughter, and learning no matter who their parents are.

44:30 [sil.]

44:35 In Atlantic Canada, a judge ruled that Susan is a capable mother and is now free to raise her daughter on her own. Directed and written by Tom Puchniak Producer Alan Handel Editor Alfonso Peccia Story Consultant Allen Abel Camera Bill Casey Marc Gadoury Bob Gibson Original Music Eric Lemoyne Narrator C. David Johnson Location Sound Recording Richie Bulgar Ian Challis Russ Lindsay Chris Strollo Post-Production Supervisor Elana Devine Sound Post-Production Jacques Comtois Louis-Phillippe Peron Denis Desmeules LES Productions Sonores Innovation Online Editing STATION 29 Assistant Editor Gavin Andrews Production Accountant Barbara Heller John Chretien Production Assistant Diane Janna Research Elizabeth Klinck Lynn Herzeg Susan Purcell Uyen Vu Development Coordination Sylvia Wilson Legal Danielle Dicaire Archival material CBC The producer wishes to thank Garth Homer Community Centre, Victoria Bruce Moore Prima Youth Choir, Victoria Ontario Association for Community Living ARC Allegheny, Pittsburgh All the families and organizations who cooperated so openly in the making of this film. For the CBS Hilary Armstrong Marie Natanson Produced with the financial participation of the Canadian Television Fund created by the Government of Canada and the Canadian cable industry Telefilm Canada Equity Investment Program CTF: License fee Program Québec Government of Québec Tax Credit Program Canada with the assistance of the Canada Film or Video Tax Credit Program Produced in association with CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION Alan Handel Productions III Inc. © 2000

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