for rey writer

T, Ontario.

Transcript of interview conducted Feb 8.2016, 4pm with:

SHERRY SHE

T, Ontario.

By: SHERRY WANG

SHERRY SHE was introduced to me by a friend. She was born in China in the 50s, and immigrated to Canada in 2006. Before SHE’ s retirement, she was a policewomen in China. She was involved in a few movements and is a strong believer in activism, supporting and spreading awareness of the movements that she believed in. The following interview was conducted through the phone in Chinese and translated in to English by the interviewer.

WANG: Hi Sherry! Oh and yes we have the same English name!

SHE: Yes I noticed, hi Sherry! (laughed softly)

WANG: And as you understand, I’ll be interviewing you regarding social movements you were activity involved in, it will be a thirty minute interview, and you can refuse to answer any questions you feel uncomfortable to answer to. Now that you have a general understanding of what I’m going to do here, I’m going to start the interview, is that alright?

SHE: Yes.

WANG: I’m going to start with some simple personal questions that will help me to get a sense of who you are. If there is a question that you do not wish to answer please tell me, and we will skip the question.

SHE: Okay.

WANG: When and where were you born?

SHE: I was born in China, in 1959.

WANG: What is your highest level of education?

SHE:Master.

WANG: and...What job do you have or have you had?

SHE: I’m Retired now. I was police.

WANG: oh wow!...okay...so... What is your religion or your family religion? If you have one?

SHE: I’m Christian.

WANG: okay...This question might come off as a bit weird, but you only need to give a very simple answer to this question...how would you describe your childhood?

SHE: I would say my childhood was unhappy...but not unfortunate. Its just that back than parents were very very strict, so..so we grew up with physical punishments and all that.

WANG: oh okay, yes, I understand.

WANG: So ...What book influenced you the most in university ? Or grad-school?

SHE: Well back in the days we didn’t read much in middle schools...and when I went to university it was at the beginning of China’s Economic Reform...I guess the books that had the most influence were those famous novels...The Red and The Black by Standal, Ana Karenina by Tolstoy, The Count of Monte Cristo and so on...

WANG: Okay, very well. So the following questions will be more related to social movements. So how did you become an activist? Why do you think you became active?

SHE: The first one I was sort of involved in was ...I guess the Tiananmen Square Protests. I was in grad-school you see, I worked for five years before I went to grad-school, so I was older than those who actually went to the protests. But I believed in the cause and was among those who supported them from behind. ...so Yes I guess that’s how and why I became an activist, I was sort of radical and righteous.

WANG: Oh wow, the mystic Tiananmen Square Protests. So were you involved in a lot of social movements?

SHE:No, I wouldn’t say I was involved in a lot of Social Movements. There was the Tiananmen Square Protests, and than there were not much after that ....until I came to Canada, and joined the protest against Ontario’s New Sex-Education Curriculum.

WANG: I understand, you don’t have much chance to get involved with Social Movement in China right?

SHE: Yes, that’s right.

WANG: So what was the strategy used in the movements you were involved with?

SHE: Protests.

WANG: And what was the most recent social movement you participated in?

SHE: The protest against Ontario’s New Sex-Education Curriculum.

WANG: Oh yes that’s right. Where did this movement (protest) take place?

SHE: At Queens Park, the Ontario Governmental Building.

WANG: And when did this take place?

SHE: Last year, sometime in April, it was not only one day, our group went out twice, joining the largest protests.

WANG: Can you describe the scene? Very simply.

SHE: It was an orderly protest, with tons of people but no one was doing anything they weren’t supposed to do.

WANG: okay, and....any other strategies used in this movement aside from protests?

SHE: There were well prepared arguments, presentations, and petitions.

WANG: Did you have an organization?

SHE: No, my group met online through WeChat (Chinese twitter/messenger like app)

WANG: I see, were there a leader? What was your role?

SHE: No, but we were not the only group that attended you see, there might have been more than twenty groups of various nations that went to the protest, not just us. Someone started the group, and people-including me- followed, that was it.

WANG: So what was the cause of this protest?

SHE: The new Ontario’s New Sex-Education Curriculum was the cause! It’s immoral! I don’t know how western culture see this as appropriate, but we can’t accept this ridiculous and immoral curriculum. My family won’t be affected, my boy is in university, but this is not right! Not for kids these days! Not for society! Kids need to take it slow! Homosexual marriage is legal, transsexuals are normal ! Forms that need signature from parents can now be signed by legal guardians, but parents and legal guardians are not the same things! The new curriculum teaches sex related things to innocent kids in grade one, two, and three. Masturbation methods in grade three?! By grade six its the whole sexual process!

WANG: I see,I see. What is your point of view ? What were your hopes and fears?

SHE: Kids shouldn't be taught that early! They can learn anything that was taught to them, but they can’t differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate at that early stage! Us traditional Chinese parents with moral standards absolutely can not accept this kind of curriculum! It is simply too early! Kids are very acceptable, they do what you teach them to do, think what you put in their minds, this is brainwashing. If they grow up thinking all that homosexual, transsexual, and same-sex-marriage is normal(being taught in class like that), parents won’t be able to influence them any other way. Sexual knowledge should be taught by parents! Parents can teach and guide their kids in a way that is suitable, and at an age that the child is suitable to be taught at, using a suitable method and standard that the parents were comfortable with! The minister of education of Ontario or something, was a pedophile, and went to jail for it. This curriculum was set by him! The new government’s actions on this issue is like they were trying to make his criminal charges go away, as if it were nothing! That is absolutely unacceptable.

WANG: I see. And some people would say they support because they think children has to know these things earlier so that they can protect themselves, what are your opinions on that?

SHE: That is true. They do need to know it early in-order to protect themselves. But not all at the same age. You see, every child is different. Some become mature and able to think for themselves responsibility at an earlier age, but some can’t until later on. Parents should be the ones that’s educated in the proper ways , and knowledge to teach their kids about sexual things. Social work, community work should be responsible to guide parents, so THEY can teach their kids appropriately. They are rushing into things by putting this in the curriculum for elementary school students, when it should be a case by case situation! Do you know what I mean?

WANG: Yes I do.

SHE: You know how they rate movies and shows PG for parental guidance? This basically makes that pointless! How are they going to control what the teachers do with this material? They can use a lot of sexual materials given to them to do inappropriate things! Who will be there to stop them? To oversee the whole education process? You never know if some teachers don’t mean well and take advantage of those vulnerable children!

WANG: What conclusion can you draw for this event? What were the accomplishments and failures of this movement?

SHE: I believe we were successful in spreading the awareness. Our actions taught new-comers to speak up when it is time to speak up! We immigrated here, we are residents and citizens, we have the right to speak up, tell the government what we think and what we want. We need to let our government know they can’t ignore our wishes. Chinese people almost never participate in politics, and most of us never vote. This is not the case now, we know what we must do. Canada is a democratic country, we all have the right to vote. We need to wake up and fulfill our duties as residents and citizens, we need to be responsible for our society and our environment. This is our largest accomplishment, to wake up all immigrants, and new comers, Chinese, Asians, and all other nations that were lacking the sense.

WANG: Was there anything you could have done to make this movement better? What you think you should have done?

SHE:We should have formed an organization. The LGBT has a powerful organization that pushed the government to form laws. Yes they were discriminated, and they should be treated equally regardless of their sexual differences. We are not anti-homosexuals. They should be protected by law. But they ARE the minority, and they can’t say the minority is majority, and they definitely should not put that material into the curriculum. You CAN’T choose your sex, you were born into one, there are only two sexes, male, and female, you can’t say there are four or five and they are all normal! That is just not right!

WANG: Did your actions or the movement affect the outcome of the event?

SHE:No but there were some influence. They can not make decisions as freely as they used to now, they have to take our (immigrant’s) thoughts into consideration now. They used to do what they want. Now they try to negotiate. And what I talked about earlier, we positively influenced a lot of the immigrants with our actions, with this movement.

WANG: Do you believe things will turn out for the better later on?

SHE: Maybe if the Conservatives came back into the picture. They were against the curriculum. Anyone with a religion is against the curriculum. Christians, Islams, and all that. We have a voice.

WANG: I see...so how many people were there at the movement?

SHE: Oh a lot, tens of thousands.

WANG: What left you a big impression in this movement? What did you find interesting?

SHE: Oh that would be the Mid-Eastern people, or Indians, I’m not sure what country they came from, but they were brown-skinned...they were super united, and boy were they well prepared. They gave wonderful and passionate speeches. We simply can’t compare. Our language skills are not as good as them you see. They were wonderfully organized. They were amazing.

WANG: Wow, okay. .and lastly, anything you wanted to add to this interview?

SHE: No not much, I just wish us immigrants can all be motivated to speak-up, and vote when we are supposed to...we need to become real residents or citizens of this country, not just visitors, and outsiders.

WANG: Wonderful. Thank you so much for agreeing to and going through with this interview!

SHE: No problem, you are very welcome! Bye!

WANG: Bye!

B. Reflection

There were a few things that I as an interviewer influenced the interview. The interviewee was an older female introduced to me by a friend. We haven’t met before the interview, and were not acquainted with each other, so the answers she gave to some of the questions , especially the personal ones, were simple, and lacks elaboration. I also had difficulty questioning some of her believes or her impression on certain things that I believed were built on a biased point of view, which I would have done so if I were interviewing someone I knew. I believe these restrictions were due to the fact that it was a interview between two people who just met (online and through phone).

There are some problems with the method we chose for the interview. We chose to have the interview through phone because it was beneficial to our conflicting schedules. It was also more convenient since we do not live with-in a close range of each other. Some people are more nervous during face-to-face interviews, so it was beneficial interviewing through the telephone, which released some pressure and nervousness for the both of us. The disadvantages of this method is that with no face-to-face interaction with the interviewee, I have less sense of her emotions, and we lack body language communication. I was anxious to ask some of the questions because I could not see her, or observe and anticipate her possible reaction to my questions before hand. Interviewing thorough a phone also made it harder to create a good ambiance for the interview.

I noticed a few things while transcribing that I did not notice during the interview . The first thing was that the interviewee had some misunderstanding and misconception towards the Ontario sex-ed curriculum that she was protesting against. After researching the key points to the new curriculum, I found that the sex-ed part of the curriculum is actually not mandatory, parents can withdraw their child from those classes if they wish so, and the curriculum was not as “intolerable” as she described (which may only be my personal opinion). While transcribing, I also noticed how the interviewee sometimes went off topic, or did not really answer the question at hand. Whenever that happens, I was always too concentrated on letting her talk, listening to her story, or thinking about the next question, that I failed to circle back, or ask the question again.

Herbert Blumer identified four stages of the social movement processes: “social ferment,” “popular excitement,” “formalization,” and “institutionalization” (De la Porta & Diani 2006, p150). He was one of the earliest scholars to study social movement processes. The four social movement processes are now known as: Emergence, Coalescence, Bureaucratization, and Decline. The interviewee explained the sex-ed protest movement in simple terms. From what I understood, the first stage--the Emergence--occurred when the new sex-education curriculum was made public knowledge. People became furious, and parents became extremely worried about the affects of the new curriculum, on their child. Discontent, fear, and anger were wide spread among parents, especially people with traditional values or religious believes. Things than arrived at stage two: Coalescence. This stage is characterized the coming together of social movement constituents(Christiansen, 2009). People became aware that the government -or the acting party- is to blame for their discontent. They are also aware that they are not alone. Things started to move from individual discontent to a collective one. Although there were no leaders in the interviewee’s activist group (since she only joined a chat group on social media, and they planned their actions together without a leader), there were other groups observed by her at the protest, that were clearly organized, with leaders of their own. Protests and demonstrations were held, strategy were formed, and awareness were spread all over Canada. People followed inspiring leaders of their own community, and tens of thousands (not a formal organization) ended up protesting all over Ontario. Unfortunately, the Ontario sex-education movement failed to reach stage three: Bureaucratization. Blumer define this stage as “ formalization,” (De la Porta & Diani, 2006). Movements are to form a formal or bureaucratic organization, detailed strategies, and hire trained staff. Many movements never reached this stage because it is very demanding to the participants or group in many aspects. At this stage, it often means when volunteers are not qualified, paid staff needs to be brought in (Macionis,2001).

There were a few questions that I wish I had asked. Buddhism is a religion common in the Asian continent, especially in China. I wish I had asked how She became a Christian at the beginning of the interview, I would have a better sense of who she is. Another one would be regarding some of her point of view that I believe were biased. I can not help but to wonder if I challenged her point of view providing, for example, some information of the curriculum, such as the fact that it was actually not mandatory, what will her reaction be like? I also wish I had spoke my mind regarding homosexuals, transsexual, and same-sex-marriage: they are not “abnormal”, they were just born different. The thought came to my mind when she talked repeatedly about how homosexuals are “abnormal”, and she does not think children should be taught that they are “normal”. I never expressed my opinion because I thought it was not appropriate to do so, after all , the point was to get the interviewee to talk more of her experience, not mine. Some other things I wish I had asked include: “What other strategies would you use if you were to plan this movement again, for your group or organization?” “Is there any movements that you wish you had a chance to join?” “Is there any movements you would like to start if you had the chance?” It should be very interesting to hear what she had to say for these questions.

If there is to be another interview regarding the same movement, I would like to interview parents of a different race, especially Caucasian, and preferably one that supported the sex-ed protest. The reason behind my race of choice is that Caucasians are “Westerners” who were raised under a completely different cultural background compared to my interviewee She(who is from China), it should be very interesting to compare the answers between people who came from two totally different ethnic backgrounds. I would like to know how someone who was raised up on this half of the globe, came to be standing on the same side of this issue, with someone who grew up in China. I would also like to ask a person of any racial background, who supports the new sex education curriculum, and to hear his or her side of the story. It would be interesting if this person, who is also Christian, see the curriculum as something harmless, positive, and healthy. Regardless who I interview, I would want to hear their view on the curriculum regarding same sex marriages, and ways they see fit to educate their children. Same sex marriage is a recognized matrimonial union with the Canadian government and is legalized in some parts of Canada. . Contrary to opposite sex marriages, where couples are entitled to be recognized as valid, same sex marriages have often been faced with multiple challenges because regardless of the law, many do not recognize them as “valid”(Sundaram & Sauntson, 2015). What can we do to protect them, and their children, who is also part of our society? Without proper education regarding this issue like the material in the new curriculum, who is to blame when biased or misinformed parents mislead their children and cause disharmony to our society?

Bibliography

De la Porta, D. & Diani, M. (2006). Social movements: An introduction (2nd Ed), Malden MA: Blackwell Publishing.

Christiansen, J. M. A. (2009). Social Movements & Collective Behavior: Four Stages of Social Movements. EBSCO Publishing Inc.

Macionis, J. J. (2001) Sociology (8th ed). Upper Saddle River, New Jersey. Prentice Hall

Sundaram, V. & Sauntson, H. (2015). Global perspectives and key debates in sex and relationships education: Addressing issues of gender, sexuality, plurality and power. Palgrave Macmilan. UK.