Week 5 Discussion

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“Inter-Ethnic Relations: Counseling Interventions Across Demographic Boundaries”

Program Transcript

NARRATOR: This next program focuses on interethnic relations, meaning relations between groups of color, as opposed to relations between whites and blacks, whites and Asians, whites and Latinos, or whites and Native Americans. Listen in as the group continues its discussion.

MALE SPEAKER: You know, one of the things that I want to focus in on is interethnic, interracial conversations. What about our relationships with one another? A lot of times, we think that multicultural or race relations is white/black, white/Asian, white/Latino, white/Native American. More and more, I think that people are saying that, well, what about Asian/black, Asian/Latino, Latino/Native American, and on and on. What are issues that we need to deal with with one another in terms of our relationships with each other?

FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I think certainly prejudice and biases that have been discussed, passed on, and so on about different racial, ethnic groups. I think a lot of times we presume communities of color there's no racism, and so on. And of course that's not the case.

And so I definitely think even beginning to own some of those challenges, to have some of those difficult conversations, is a first step to thinking about what emotional road blocks do we have that might come from whatever we were taught in our families, or our churches, or wherever about other racial, ethnic groups. So I definitely think that in addition to intersection of identities, it really increases the depth of our understanding of cultural competence that we can't assume as people of color we know something, or we have a certain kind of attitude. That just may not be the case. And that's a painful thing, certainly, to realize, but that's another road block to look at.

MALE SPEAKER: But also, I think it underscores, I think, the utility of the competency models where we talk about awareness now is in scale. Because part of the awareness that we have to have in those ways is just because I am a member of a racial ethnic group doesn't necessarily make me immune from the biases of other people who come from those particular places. And that's a level of discussion I think that we don't have a lot of, either.

MALE SPEAKER: Why do you think we don't have them?

MALE SPEAKER: Partly because it's not comfortable, and partly because the focus has been primarily on African American, Asian, Latino, Indian, international against what is a predominantly white dominated society, and so that's where the focus is. And I think the focus has to be able to expand to be there in some real

ways. And part of what happens is-- I mean, this is something I don't forget. And I think it was Frances Cress Welsing quoting Neely Fuller when she said, if you don't understand racism and white supremacy, what it is and how it functions, everything else you think you understand will only confuse you.

And so when you think about confronting the dynamics of oppression, oppression, to me, is an unnatural human phenomena. What it does is it instigates unnatural human behavior. And so what happens with marginalized groups and oppressed groups, there are two phenomena I think are key that are important, I think, for us to talk about around the table.

One is the identification with the oppressor, so that now, how do I insulate myself from the slings and arrows that I know are to come my way from the social isms? I identify more with the oppressor. But more importantly, I began to then adopt the oppressor's ideology, and it is that piece that becomes the most dangerous, because now, even not just between groups we're talking about here.

So I might look at another Chicano or Latino brother or sister, I might look at another Asian American brother or sister, and because of my own oppression, I now want to oppress them as a way of trying to get closer to what the dominant structure is like. But what it also does is it dehumanizes me.

And it doesn't just happen between groups. It also happens within group, so that now as an African American male, I now think to be lighter is better than to be darker. To have a different kind of hair is better than that. So I'm looking at color and feature consciousness in our people, and is that an appropriate maiden? What's the standard of beauty? All based on someone else's yardstick about what is culturally appropriate, but I'm understanding at a deep structural level, all that relates to it as a consequence of those dynamics of oppression.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, that's beautifully said. I really think that makes so much sense. And I think it's about the racial ethnic issues as well as some of the intersecting identities we talked about earlier. That oppression goes very deep and very long, and it not only affects how we see each other as racial ethnic beings, but as gendered beings, as sexual beings, as religious beings, and so on. So I think that that thought applies in so many ways across the many ways that we are different from each other.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I think there's a real urgency for our field to address this issue, because of just the amount of violence that is going on in communities. And certainly if we're working with youth, we really need to do something about it. For example, in East Palo Alto this year, there have been 12 deaths of youth, and it's all interethnic conflict. It's gang related.

But still, that is a tremendous loss. And we had a youth rally last week, and I noticed that there were no Latinos there. There were African Americans and

Pacific Islanders, but almost half of this community are people from Mexico or other Mexican Americans. And so why was that? Why not? And how are we going to get along?

MALE SPEAKER: See, this is something that I've been looking at quite carefully. And one of them is that if you look at it from a societal viewpoint, in terms of if you look at the worse relationships in Houston, for example, it's not between black and white, but between Asian and black. If you look at during the Los Angeles riots, when the African Americans and the Korean business owners, those exploded on the scene. And I think there was a lot of political, social political issues that need to be addressed.

But I think that a lot of us fear this type of dialogue which is needed, Teresa. I agree with you. Because of what we see as the divide and conquer that occurs. I mean, Thomas, you said white supremacy.

If you don't understand that we operate under this umbrella of white supremacy, then we will proceed these interethnic, interracial conflicts differently. Like, look at these people can't get along themselves. Why should we change? They're equally guilty, and yet it is almost that this society sets it up structurally where we get such a small piece of the pie, and the groups of color have to fight over it. And unless we operate from that framework, we will often times blame the groups who are [INAUDIBLE]. I mean, there's no doubt, as people of color, we have biases against one another. We have prejudices. We have misinformation. This comes out in our interaction.

But we are also almost puppets in the systemic operation that goes on.

FEMALE SPEAKER: I would agree. It's been such a battle in terms of our larger society, and even in psychology and counseling and education, to put multicultural issues front and center. So I think that has a lot of reasons why we haven't had these dialogues, because this is such a battle just to get to this point. And I think it's important that we at least stay at this point and move forward. And so how we structure these dialogues, because I think there will come a time for us to have those dialogues, but not in a way that destroys the things that we've achieved so far.

MALE SPEAKER: But it's not just-- I mean, I want to add to that, because it's not just dialogue that we've got to engage in. I think what Daryl makes a particular point about in his writing is the social advocacy piece. See, part of why stuff doesn't change is because we're willing to at least dialogue about it in socially correct ways, but we're not willing to really advocate for it in a way that allows us to make some fundamental change in some of the ways in which we operate, either in terms of relationships with colleagues, relationships with the institutions that we engage in, or that employ us, or something else. And it's that level of risk I think that we've got to be willing to take.