db psyc 620 #2
MasterQ37
transcriptRelationalCognitiveTherapyFromaChristianPerspectiveClient1.docxRelational Cognitive Therapy From a Christian Perspective (Client 1)
1: Introduction
0 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[00:00] DR. MARK R. MCMINNHello Huang HUANG: Hi DR. MARK R. MCMINN: It's good to have you here today. HUANG: Yeah, thank you. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: How can I be of help?
3 seconds HUANG
[00:03] HUANGUm, you know, um, this is about Christian counseling. So I just feel like I don't do enough as a Christian.
18 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[00:18] DR. MARK R. MCMINNThat's a- that sounds like an important area for us to talk about Huang. Can you tell me more about those feelings?
28 seconds HUANG
[00:28] HUANGMmm. It's hard to say.
33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[00:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNI- I don't do enough. That's one of the things I'm hearing you say. HUANG: Mmhmm.
38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[00:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNCan you explain that to me? HUANG: Um...
43 seconds HUANG
[00:43] HUANGI, um, I don't get along well with my sister and, um, and then my mother says, um, "you are a Christian. Why are you not, um, getting well with your sister?" But you know, sometimes she says, um, bad things and I think I have the right to choose who I want to be with.
1 minute 23 seconds HUANG
[01:23] HUANGBut, um, I guess my mother does not see it in this way. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So part of this is a disagreement between you and your mother
1 minute 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[01:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNabout how you relate to your sister. HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: And she's using your faith...(crosstalk) HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: As part of that conversation. HUANG: Mmhmm.
1 minute 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[01:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNOne of the things that would be helpful would be for me to have a bit of the context here. Can you tell me some about your mother’s faith and your sister’s faith in relation to yours? HUANG: Um, they all believe in Buddha. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. HUANG: Uh, I'm the only
1 minute 58 seconds HUANG
[01:58] HUANGone who is a Christian. Um, eve, I mean, most of my relatives they are Buddhist too. So , um, maybe only a few are Christians. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: That must have been quite a thing for your family when you became a Christian.
2 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[02:18] HUANGUm, yeah. I - when I go to the Catholic church my mother didn't show much, um, um, disappointment. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But when I go the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, um, you know, people they call it the Mormon church. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: Um, maybe because of this, they are associated with it, um, mother doesn't like me going to that church.
2 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[02:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmm. HUANG: But- but now she's more
2: History of Presenting Concern
2 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[02:58] HUANGused to it. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: How long has this been going on?
3 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[03:03] HUANGYou mean, um.. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: How long have you been a part of the
3 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[03:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNChurch of ...(crosstalk) HUANG: Um. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: -Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints? HUANG: I started going in
3 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[03:13] HUANG, um, on the 20th of April, 2003 I started to have my first lesson and then, um, in five months I was baptized.
3 minutes 28 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[03:28] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo about a year and a half ago you were baptized. About two years ago you started getting involved in the church? HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: And that's when some of the tensions with your mother...(crosstalk) HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - started. Were- were the tensions with your sister there before this or did that start around the same time too?
3 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[03:48] HUANGThat was before. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: That was be- that's been a long time? HUANG: Um, she doesn't have much to do with my going to that church but it's the personal conflict between her and me. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
4 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[04:03] HUANGBut my mother is more used to my going to the church now. Before, um, she - she said " I don't want you to be with those people. Uh, don't bring those people home." DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmm. HUANG: Yeah. And, and afterwards, um, when she knew that I was going to the church and she would say "oh, you're going to church now?" I'd say "yes." So I- I guess she's more used to it. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Things are getting a little better
4 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[04:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNin general...(crosstalk) HUANG: Mmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - with your faith and your mother but things are still tough between you and your sister and what your mom has to say about that.
4 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[04:48] HUANGYeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So if you- your feeling then “if I were a better Christian
4 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[04:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINN" or at least someone's telling you that- If I were a better Christian then I wouldn't be having these problems with my sister.
4 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[04:58] HUANGMmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: There are a couple things I think it's- that would be important for us
5 minutes 3 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[05:03] DR. MARK R. MCMINNto explore here, Huang. One would be, I'd be interested in just learning a little bit more about some of the cultural background and what it meant for you and- I know you mentioned that you spent a good deal of your life in Portugal and some of your life in China. It would be interesting to know what it meant for you to become a Christian in- in relation to the culture that you come from. And then a second thing that I would really like to look at is very specifically at this relationship with your sister and how it brings up these feelings for you that you're not a good enough Christian. HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Do you have a preference which one we start or would you like to add some other things? HUANG: I prefer the first one then. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Fir-first one about the cultural background?
3: Culture and Religion
5 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[05:43] HUANGMmm. Um, because it's a Portuguese colony and the missionaries they can go to Macau and Hong Kong ...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm.
5 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[05:58] HUANGBut they can not go to China. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Alright. HUANG: Um, even though they are - Hong Kong and Macau were handed back to China they became special administrative regions and, so the missionaries can go to , um, Hong Kong and Macau. You know, um, the Portuguese, they, um, maybe they were sent to Macau to work in those government jobs. Um, I guess there is some Western culture prevailing in Hong Kong and Macau. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But, I guess the majority is still Chinese. So , um...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: What are the...(crosstalk) HUANG: - I think , um, it's more obvious for people to go to church in Hong Kong and Macau than in China. I- I don't know a lot about China because I don't really live in mainland China. Because there can be quite a difference. Um, so , um, there are many Catholic schools in Hong Kong and Macau and my mother put me in that school. Even though she doesn't want me to believe in God, but all this time, um, starting when I was four years old, um, from kindergarten, all the way up to 11th grade I- I was in Catholic school.
7 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[07:28] HUANGSo it's kind of interesting. She doesn't want me to believe in God but she put me in a Catholic school.
7 minutes 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[07:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo there must have been some reason she did that. HUANG: Um, because
7 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[07:38] HUANGthe school, um, students can learn a lot from it. It's kind of hard and a lot to learn. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. HUANG: So it's a good school so they put me in that school. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So she- so she puts you
7 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[07:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNin the Catholic school. You get a good education ...(crosstalk) HUANG: Right. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: And then at some point you convert to another church and that causes some problems between you and your mom. What does it mean in the larger cultural sense for someone in your culture to convert to a Western religion? HUANG: In my culture? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Yeah. HUANG: I can't really
8 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[08:13] HUANG...identify what culture I was in. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: You've had a lot of cultures...(crosstalk) HUANG: (crosstalk) Because...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - haven't you? HUANG: Yeah. But, you know, my - mostly my family members are Chinese. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. And- and Buddhist?
8 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[08:28] HUANGYeah. But my school- I mean, um, it's the Chinese people who teach in Chinese- who- who teach in-in school but the principal is from Europe. So, um, I don't really know my culture. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Sounds like an interesting mix of East
8 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[08:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNand West. HUANG: Yeah. (ph) On the top of this it sort of is
8 minutes 53 seconds HUANG
[08:53] HUANGfrom Europe but the, um, rest is Chinese. Um. And we, um, we learn a lot of English because the school is divided into a Chinese section and an English section. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: And I went to the English one and, so I learned a lot of English and- you know, if I learn a lot of English it's kind of like Western culture. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Sure. It makes sense. HUANG: Only the Chinese subjects are taught in Chinese. You know, all the others, Mathematics, um, whatever, are taught in English. So I don't know the cultural context. Um, except that in my family it's mostly Chinese. I mean, that's all I can say. It's just that Mormon, in Chinese they translate at, uh, Mó mul is- is the Chinese (ph) for Mormon, just, you know, just a translation.
9 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[09:58] HUANGAnd Magu, Magu , um, that's another word for Mógui, it means devil and (ph) "enborn" means door so it gives people an idea that it's the door of the devil. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Really?
10 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[10:13] HUANGYeah. But they- they don't use, um, the Chinese word, um, for, uh, they don't use the Chinese word for devil for Mogue. You know. Um. There are many words that are the same sign but different meanings.
10 minutes 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[10:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo they can use different words to communicate...(crosstalk) HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Different ideas. HUANG: But one, one meaning
10 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[10:38] HUANGit means devil so it may give people some ..that maybe it's the door of the devil. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: I'm sure. I'm sure. Do you remember what it was
10 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[10:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNlike for you to go to see your, your mother or your parents- I don't know exactly your family situation but do you remember what it was like when you told them that you had converted to the church? HUANG: Mmm.
11 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[11:03] HUANGJust now I told you that my mother asked me not to be with those people. But I'm a very firm person I say I would go, If I would go then I say I would go.
11 minutes 18 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[11:18] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo when you were telling her...(crosstalk) HUANG: And...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - you were expecting some conflict then?
11 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[11:23] HUANG(ph) Pardon. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right when you first told your mother about your conversion.
11 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[11:28] HUANGUm...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: How were you expecting her to react? HUANG: I- I don't, I didn't really have a specific point that I told her that I was converted. It was kind of a gradual process. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. HUANG: And- and I was about to get baptized and I, uh, uh, and I made a (ph) long, white dress and I tried it at home and- and my father saw it and then my mother told my father (excuse me) uh, that she's getting baptized and then my father said "baptized what?" DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmm. HUANG: Oh.
12 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[12:13] HUANGI guess at that point my mother was more used to it or she would have said "no, you can not get baptized." DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. HUANG: But I didn't even fight her to go to watch my baptism . DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: I just guess it doesn't really mean something to them. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: (ph) HUANG: And I guess they didn't want to go to that church. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: That's one of the reasons that I wanted to
12 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[12:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNunderstand some of that cultural and family background. Thank you for letting me go on a little detour there. Because when your mother- you began today by talking about how you mother says you should be a better Christian...(crosstalk) HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - in treating your sister. I just wanted to understand a bit how you and your family understand the fact that you do have this faith that you have. HUANG: Mmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Thank you for helping me understand that. Now
4: Relationship With Sister
13 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[13:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNlets see if we can understand the situation with- with your sister a little bit better. Can you think of a time recently when this has come up? A specific instance when somethings going on with you and your sister and- and maybe your mom made a comment like that or you thought to yourself "oh, I wish I were a better Christian"? Can you think of something recently that's happened? HUANG: That this kind of conflict happened? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm.
13 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[13:33] HUANGWell, because I'm angry at her so I'm not talking to her. So. Um, yeah, I mean, she mentioned something like, um, I don't remember the exact words that she used, um, like something "you are not a Christian." Like, um, on the phone, um, because there's some conflict between my father and me too and if there's some conflict I would tell my father. Like, I want to be assertive. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: And she maybe she thought that I was too assertive.
14 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[14:23] HUANGThat I shouldn't tell my father what I don't like. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm.
14 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[14:28] HUANGSo she said, um, she said something like I'm not a Christian. But she knew that I'm a Christian. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Now a minute ago you said that
14 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[14:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNyou've been feeling angry with your mother and not talking. Was that...(crosstalk) HUANG: No my fa- my- my sister.
14 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[14:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNOh, it's your sister. So...(crosstalk) HUANG: Yeah. I talk with my mother. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Oh, OK. So this was a fairly recent conversation when she s...(crosstalk) HUANG: Um, no
14 minutes 53 seconds HUANG
[14:53] HUANGit's like, um, maybe, um, two or three years ago. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Oh, so it's...(crosstalk) HUANG: Because I'm not talking to her so we don't have many conversations. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. So somehow in the last two or three years, what she said to you
15 minutes 13 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[15:13] DR. MARK R. MCMINNhas become what you say to you. Do you see what I'm saying? 'Cause you began today, when we first started talking, you began by saying " I don't think I'm a very good Christian 'cause I'm not nice to my sister." So somehow what your ...(crosstalk) HUANG: I...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: -mom said to you is now HUANG: I didn't...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: what you say to you. HUANG: I didn't say I was not nice to my sister. I- I just said
15 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[15:33] HUANGthat I have the right to choose who I want to be with. No. Ignoring the fact that she is my sister, just a person in general. If she said that to me do I want to be with her? I don't want to be with her just for the sake that she's my sister. Do you understand my point? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: It's like, I choose my friends. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: I have the right to choose my friends. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK.
15 minutes 58 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[15:58] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo that's part of the assertiveness you were mentioning a minute ago. HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: That you have the right to make your own choices...(crosstalk) HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - about who your friends are. Now where does the- where does the other part come in? The part where you say to yourself "I'm not being a very good Christian"?
16 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[16:13] HUANGAhh, I don't know. I- guess I want to do more but I don't exactly know, um, what I can do. Like I think of, um, telling her what I feel inside. Why I'm not talking to her. But she may not care.
16 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[16:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNWe're talking about your sister now? HUANG: Yeah. Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So- so part of being assertive you wonder if maybe talking with her more...(crosstalk) HUANG: Because I think- it's not a few instances
16 minutes 53 seconds HUANG
[16:53] HUANGthat she- she was like this. I guess it's the type of person that she is. Like sometimes, like, even people who want to do what is right, um, they can still make mistakes sometimes. I can surely forgive those kind of mistakes, you know, because the goal is to do something- is to do that right thing but her goal is not. Even for people who- who's goal is to do the right thing, they can still make mistakes. That kind of mistakes I can surely forgive but I think it's just the way that she talks, the way that she is.
17 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[17:33] HUANGSo I don't want to be with her. But, um, I think my mother doesn't know that I think like this.
5: Exploring Thoughts and Feelings
17 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[17:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNNow Huang, as you're talking about these things what sort of feelings do you have stirring inside of you? Towards your sister. HUANG: Um, now I feel OK.
17 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[17:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmhmm. HUANG: But I feel kind of angry. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Angry? Mmhmm. So, angry. And what- what sort of thoughts , what do you say to yourself as you're feeling angry about this? HUANG: Mmm. Um,
18 minutes 8 seconds HUANG
[18:08] HUANGThe things that I want to justify like um, the things that I don't agree with. Um, yeah.
18 minutes 28 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[18:28] DR. MARK R. MCMINN Huang, now I'm still searching for where the thought then comes in that says I'm not a very good Christian for having these feelings. Is there a formula in your mind here that's saying ' If I feel angry and don't have much contact with my sister then that means that I'm not a good Christian' Is that- is that the way the formula goes?
18 minutes 53 seconds HUANG
[18:53] HUANGUm, I don't remember, um, the specific verse in the bible but I, um, somehow learned that, um, we shouldn't be with people that don't love God. And that's what she is. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmm.
19 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[19:18] HUANGUh, I just - it is the way that she is. Like, judging me how I should wear my clothes or"you're wearing this? You're so strange." Just saying things like that. Like, something if I did to her she would say something about me but she can say- do that thing to me. Though I feel, um, unfair.
19 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[19:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmhmm. HUANG: Though, I guess...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: It looks like you have several people in your life telling you what you should be and what you should do. HUANG: Yeah, they
20 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[20:03] HUANG... hmm. Yeah. So I guess if I'm not with those people who doesn't- who don't like to follow God's will it's not something wrong for a Christian not to be with them. But if- but if that person, um, or even if he or she does not believe in God, if he or she just, um, you know, always try to do the right thing I can stay with those people.
20 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[20:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo I'm hearing a different formula now I'm hearing a formula that says- goes something like this "if someones doesn't live God and, or, and they don't behave in the ways that I think they should behave" ...(crosstalk) HUANG: - I think- that I think they should behave? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: This is what I'm hearing. Am I hearing that wrong? If someone doesn't love God and they don't behave right then I don't really want to spend time with them. HUANG: Yes. But, um,
21 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[21:18] HUANGYeah, if they insist on , um, doing bad things then I don't want to be with them. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. So this gets complicated, doesn't it. 'Cause you've got this one thing that says
21 minutes 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[21:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNif people don't love God and don't behave right I don't really want to spend time with them. And you also have the thing that says I'm being a bad Christian in the process.
21 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[21:43] HUANGOh, I didn't say I'm a bad Christian. But, um, I don't know in this situation I don't know if I can do more to to make things better. But if my mother understands my reasoning I guess that would be better. And I- m- I mean they don't they don't- they don't- maybe they don't think what they do sometimes is wrong . I, um, my sister got pregnant before she got married and in the Christian point of view that's not right.
22 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[22:38] HUANGBut my mother said "oh, I'm so happy that she's pregnant." Like, they just (ph) be faring that kind of thinking. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: I'm just listening to you Huang and I'm thinking, I wonder if what you're
22 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[22:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNdoing is you're trying to communicate something about your values to your sister. So that, for example, when she gets pregnant before marriage you don't feel like that's right and so one of the ways you can...(crosstalk) HUANG: (crosstalk) It is not right. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right.
6: Alternative Thoughts and Feelings
23 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[23:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo you could communicate that, one of the ways you're thinking of communicating that is by s- avoiding her and staying away from her. Does that make sense? That maybe- maybe there's a communication aspect to your desire to stay away from her? HUANG: I don't stay away from her just because she got pregnant before she got married
23 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[23:23] HUANGbut because of other things. I mean, the bad things that she said. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right.
23 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[23:28] HUANGLike, unfair things DR. MARK R. MCMINN: I'm just wondering if we could explore
23 minutes 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[23:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNother alternatives. Is there any other way you might be able to communicate to your sister, going back to the assertiveness, any other way you might be able to communicate your concerns to your sister with out feeling like you have to break off the relationship in order to accomplish it.
23 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[23:48] HUANGUm, I guess, um, if I had to communicate with her, telling her how I feel , um, maybe I can write to her . I was planning to do that but it takes time to organize and- and, how I should write it.
24 minutes 18 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[24:18] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmhmm. HUANG: Because, um, I won't- even
24 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[24:23] HUANGif it's not international call I won't call her because, I mean, this is a serious issue, I mean. I mean, it's not life and death but, uh, it's a serious one that I - I want to give people a fair chance to think and to respond. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: So if I write she will have the chance to think and then, um, respond. So even if it's not international call I won't call because if I call, people, they have to they respond, um, (ph) quite immediately.
24 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[24:58] HUANGSo. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But... Like, before I tried, when I was in Macau I- I emailed her, telling her how I feel but she doesn't- she didn't like it. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmm. And when she didn't like
25 minutes 13 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[25:13] DR. MARK R. MCMINNit how did that make you feel? HUANG: Um,
25 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[25:18] HUANGI don't know. I don't know. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: It seems like you took
25 minutes 33 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[25:33] DR. MARK R. MCMINNsome risk in emailing her, you took a risk in telling her what you thought. HUANG: Mmhmm.
25 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[25:38] HUANGBut she used to call me up and just burst out what she wanted to say. And she could do that. The point why I emailed her is because of the (ph) logic that I mentioned before. I like to give people a fair chance to think and to respond. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: So if I email her she can take her time to respond. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But she'd just call me up and, and then there's just burst out the things that she wanted to say. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: She was angry.
26 minutes 8 seconds HUANG
[26:08] HUANGUm, I don't know how she felt.
26 minutes 13 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[26:13] DR. MARK R. MCMINNHow did she sound? HUANG: Uh,
26 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[26:18] HUANGshe, I guess she sounded like, um, it's like what you said. Like, I'm telling you what to do. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Hmm. HUANG: It's kind of like um, you should do that way that I say.
26 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[26:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNShe was telling you that or she felt that you were telling her that? Who was telling whom what to do?
26 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[26:43] HUANGUm, I guess she- she just told me to think that she wanted me to do- DR. MARK R. MCMINN: I see.
26 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[26:58] HUANGUm, you do this, you do this, and, um, and, like, you shouldn't do this, like it's always about her. But you didn't get my perspective and, and when I said something that she could do she- she said "how am I supposed to know that" but if I were the one to say that she would say "what kind of attitude is that?" DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhm. So
27 minutes 28 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[27:28] DR. MARK R. MCMINNyou two have made some different choices in life. Your paths have departed, you're going different ways. And the question that you're both facing...(crosstalk) HUANG: Maybe we- we never walked in the same way, I guess.
27 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[27:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNOh, you never did? OK. HUANG: I don't know. Um, no. I - I
27 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[27:43] HUANGI don't know how influenced she is by the Catholic school church, she also went to the Catholic school ...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But only I was influenced. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: In terms of your moral choices you were influenced more than she
27 minutes 58 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[27:58] DR. MARK R. MCMINNwas. HUANG: By my faith. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Your faith. HUANG: That I choose to believe in God. It was a
28 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[28:03] HUANGgradual process. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: OK. HUANG: It was not, um, (ph) definite.
7: Exploring Desire For a Relationship
28 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[28:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo- so I suppose the- the lingering question that we've been talking about in different ways throughout this conversation is, what can be salvaged here? Is there still a way for you and your sister to have a relationship?
28 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[28:23] HUANGI guess if if she continues to speak like that to me, I mean, it's the way that she is, there's no reason that I should be with her. But my mother didn't think this way. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhm.
28 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[28:43] HUANGSo. I just feel like I'm doing it for my mother.
28 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[28:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNUh-huh. And you're trying to gain some of your own voice here and come to your own decisions and be assertive about your own choice.
28 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[28:58] HUANGYeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: In relation to what- it- it gets to be complex doesn't it?
29 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[29:03] HUANGIt's complex. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: What do you think- is there something- can you find anything good
29 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[29:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNabout what your mother is trying to say her? It doesn't sound like she's saying it very well when she says you're not being a good Christian but is there anything going about what she's trying to say to you?
29 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[29:18] HUANGYou mean... DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Anything valuable in the words
29 minutes 23 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[29:23] DR. MARK R. MCMINNthat she's speaking to you that- that are important? HUANG: Do you mean the- do you mean, um,
29 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[29:28] HUANGthe things that she said to me when we have a disagreement or just in life, in general? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Well I guess what I mean Huang, is she seems to be saying to you
29 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[29:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINN" I would really like to see you have a relationship with your sister." HUANG: Mm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Now she's not saying it that well. But she's saying that to you. Do you think that there is anything good in what she's saying?
29 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[29:48] HUANGI'm sure there's something good because a family should be tied together but if she does not want to walk in God's way it's hard for me to be with them. It's like, um, my mother , like, some relative arranged for a job for me but, um, I- I have to, um, study something to take the exams- it's a government job. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: And and like before my interview a relative told me that I have to lie in the interview. All this time she didn't tell me. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: And my mother said "it's OK. Many people do that." Like she also walks in the- in the way of the world.
30 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[30:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo- so there we get something really good about what you're trying to say. You're saying "I have moral principals and I don't want to just disregard those in order to do what other people tell me." HUANG: Yeah. I mean, I should choose to do
30 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[30:58] HUANGthe right thing. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But, yeah. I mean, some people they think " oh, it doesn't matter if I lie in an interview." DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: Um, "it's just a small lie." But, whether it's small or big a lie is a lie. Besides, um, if the, uh, government agency they don't want people, um, who are getting information from an inside source to get into the job. I mean, if it's their rules then I should follow. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: Because , um, I'm getting information from my relative and she got the information from maybe her friend working in that government agency. So so the government agency wanted some people, some applicants that read the newspaper by themselves and apply but not from inside source.
31 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[31:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmhmm. HUANG: So. I think it's a very
31 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[31:58] HUANGbig rule of the agency. Besides, it's a government agency almost like cheating the government, right? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right. HUANG: So.. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So you're saying " I don't want
32 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[32:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNto have any part of that." HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Thats- OK. And- and- and, from a faith perspective we have to really honor what you're saying and it seems to be that we ought to say that's- that's the right choice your making. HUANG: Yeah, but now, um, - because I always
32 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[32:23] HUANGinsisted on telling the truth my mother kind of gets some of it. "Oh, you want to say the truth." I mean, she may not do it herself but at least she know that this is what I want to do. And I'm glad that she knows it. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So you're getting through. Your communicating in some way.
32 minutes 43 seconds HUANG
[32:43] HUANGI - I think she changed a little bit . DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Now let me go back to what we were talking about a minute ago. Are there some things that
32 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[32:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNthat she's saying that are important to hear?
32 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[32:58] HUANGUm, just now she said, um, I mean that I said that, um, like, I'm a Christian and I should have a good relationship with my sister. Um, this is a good thing, you know, a family should be tied together. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But she doesn't know that she's not looking the right way (ph) or even my mother. So what she said was good but she didn't know that it's not good for me to be with people who always speak like this.
33 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[33:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINN"That's not good". Tell me about that. What- what's not good for you? To be with people that are- that have different values than you? HUANG: Um,
33 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[33:48] HUANGI won't be influenced by them. It's not like if I'll be with them I would be (ph). It's just that it is hard to be with people , um, who are like this and and that's just unfair to me. Like, like she can do something, um, not right to me and it would be OK. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: But if I do it it wouldn't be OK. It's always their way. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. You- you're feeling a real
34 minutes 28 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[34:28] DR. MARK R. MCMINNdilemma here. You're really feeling stuck, in a sense. HUANG: But I, surely I want to have a sister that
34 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[34:33] HUANGI, um, have a relationship with, um. Maybe she ...(crosstalk) DR. MARK R. MCMINN: ...(crosstalk) I can see that. HUANG: She doesn't have to believe in God but, um at least want, um, to follow the right ways. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: If you didn't
34 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[34:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNcare about your relationship with your sister I don't think you'd be here. I think you care. HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. Now you're trying to figure out what to do because you're values are so very different.
35 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[35:03] HUANGBut I can not change the way that she does things. So, um, I guess I can tell her why I don't want to be with her and my values. And if - if she doesn't want to walk in that way we don't have a relationship. We won't have a relationship. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Is that what you want to say?
35 minutes 28 seconds HUANG
[35:28] HUANGYeah. I want to have a sister who is,um, loving and kind and just but, uh, I don't have.
8: Challenging Schema
35 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[35:38] HUANGOr, I want to live in a Christian family. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm. HUANG: Like we have- we share the same values, and... DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Now that would be the
35 minutes 48 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[35:48] DR. MARK R. MCMINNeasiest solution, is if everyone believed the way you did. Is- do you think that's going to happen? HUANG: Now while I (ph)
35 minutes 53 seconds HUANG
[35:53] HUANGbut, um, but God's will.
35 minutes 58 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[35:58] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmhmm. Do you think that's going to happen? HUANG: It's
36 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[36:03] HUANGhard. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: I can see in your face how hard that is
36 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[36:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNbecause you love your family, you want to be with them but you're- you're feeling like it would be hard to be with them. [sil.] (ph) this stirs up some feelings in you. [sil.] Huang, I'm trying to- I'm trying to put together the different pieces. You feel- you feel really stuck here. You love your family, you want to be with them.
36 minutes 58 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[36:58] DR. MARK R. MCMINNYou don't- you don't want to en- you don't want to condone the way your sister’s behaving. How do you fit this together with Jesus who came and who lived among sinners and ate with- ate with a...(crosstalk) HUANG: But I'm not, um, I
37 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[37:23] HUANGremember some- some part of the scriptures like the deciples ask Jesus "why do you be with the sinners. Why do you eat with the sinners?" And then Jesus said it's the sinners who need the (ph). DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right. HUANG: But of course I'm not Jesus. But, um, I can not I can not always say "oh, you can not do this, you should follow in God's way." Um, that would be kind of annoying to them, you know. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm, that's right. HUANG: I don't want to follow this way. Stop telling me.
37 minutes 58 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[37:58] DR. MARK R. MCMINNRight. HUANG: Because once during dinner I talk about righteousness. I'm just talking
38 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[38:03] HUANGabout this topic in general but my, um- DR. MARK R. MCMINN: What- what do you think
38 minutes 8 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[38:08] DR. MARK R. MCMINNabout...(crosstalk) HUANG: But my father didn't like it. "Stop talking about it."
38 minutes 13 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[38:13] DR. MARK R. MCMINNMmm. HUANG: I'm not pointing - I'm not talking about any particular person I was just talking about
38 minutes 18 seconds HUANG
[38:18] HUANGthis topic. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhm.
9: Summary of Presenting Concern
38 minutes 23 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[38:23] DR. MARK R. MCMINNReally, it really ends up bringing out the differences between you and your family when that happens and that must hurt.
38 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[38:33] HUANGSo, it's hard. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Do you think
38 minutes 38 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[38:38] DR. MARK R. MCMINNpart of the- part of the thing that makes it hard for you Huang is you keep- you keep telling yourself you've got to change your family. HUANG: No. No.
38 minutes 48 seconds HUANG
[38:48] HUANGI can not change them. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Or at least you're telling yourself you've got to tell them what
38 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[38:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNyou think- what you feel about the difference in beliefs. HUANG: (crosstalk) Yeah, I can tell them what I think and what I feel and why I don't
38 minutes 58 seconds HUANG
[38:58] HUANGtalk to her. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Right.
39 minutes 3 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[39:03] DR. MARK R. MCMINNWhat about- what about the notion of just being with them? Just enjoying them. HUANG: Joining them? DR. MARK R. MCMINN: No, not joining them, just enjoying, just - just being together and- and being in a relationship even if you have differences.
39 minutes 23 seconds HUANG
[39:23] HUANGMmm. Uh, it's not just the difference in faith but the fact that she is just telling me her perspective, uh, how she wants me to to act, ignoring my perspective. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhmm.
39 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[39:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNSo you're- I see. Your sister’s not simply content to let there be differences either. She's saying "you need to act the way I'm"...(crosstalk) HUANG: Yeah. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: So both of you are in a tug-of-war here. You're both sort-of pulling each other in opposite directions...(crosstalk) HUANG: Mmhmm. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: - And trying to get the other person to be...(crosstalk) HUANG: I just hope that if my mother
40 minutes 13 seconds HUANG
[40:13] HUANGunderstands this situation she'll know that why I'm not talking to her. But just now I told you my mother also has that kind of thoughts. She also says unfair things to me. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: that does sound unfair. HUANG: It doesn't mean she- she doesn't do any good to me but she said that kind of things too. Like she will buy me a lot of materialistic things and that's very good, I need them but- but a relationship is much more than that. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhm. So she's really communicating to you that she
40 minutes 53 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[40:53] DR. MARK R. MCMINNloves you and she wants a relationship's he's doing it by buying you things which may not be the best way to communicate it but that's what she's probably trying. HUANG: Um, Before I was
41 minutes 3 seconds HUANG
[41:03] HUANGvery angry at my sister and I- and I would yell by myself and my mother noticed that and- and then she started, um, talking to me. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: Mmhm. HUANG: Um, saying that I can tell her anything but I don't think it's anything.
41 minutes 28 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[41:28] DR. MARK R. MCMINN(crosstalk) (ph) HUANG: But I sense that
41 minutes 33 seconds HUANG
[41:33] HUANG, um, I mean, at least she started to care
10: Conclusion
41 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[41:38] HUANGthat I was happy. DR. MARK R. MCMINN: One of the things I see
41 minutes 43 seconds DR. MARK R. MCMINN
[41:43] DR. MARK R. MCMINNin the tears in your eyes as you speak today, I've seen how much care there is for your family and I s- I'm sure you're right that your mother deeply cares for you too. Perhaps even your sister, who knows? But one of the things that I think would be important for you to keep working on is identifying this challenge that you're in right now. You're in this place where you're feeling really stuck . You want these relationships and yet you don't want the influence of the relationship with your sister. Not just the influence but you don't want her pulling you in the direction that she's pulling you. And I think it's really a good time in your life for you to take some time in therapy and try to figure out how you respond (ph) best. In light of your faith, in light of your love for your family, in light of their love for you. HUANG: It's complex,
42 minutes 38 seconds HUANG
[42:38] HUANGit's really... DR. MARK R. MCMINN: It certainly is. And I want to thank you for blessing me with your story and helping me understand
