Diversity Issues in Counseling

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TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEO FILE: 00:00:00 ____________________________________________________________________________ __ 00:00:00 BEGIN TRANSCRIPT: 00:00:00 MICROTRAINING And Multicultural Development Microtraining Associates, Inc. 888-505-5576 Email: [email protected] Website: www.emicrotraining.com © 2008 Social Class, Economic Privilege, And Counseling William Ming Liu Jay Greenfeld Derek Turesky University of Iowa 00:00:00 DEREK G. TURESKY Within our world, there are powerful cultural forces at work that affect how we view others and ourselves. One of these cultural forces is social class. So what is social class, and how does it influence how we view ourselves and others? In the most basic sense, social class is an individual's subjective experience of his or her social standing and its social consequences. Various levels of social class are commonly labeled as upper class, middle class, and lower class, blue collar and white collar. These various social class levels set the stage for classism or oppression of others due to their social class standing. How is classism expressed in our society? 00:01:05 DEREK G. TURESKY There is Upward Classism, which is prejudice of individuals in lower social classes toward those of higher social classes. 00:01:15 DEREK G. TURESKY Downward Classism is prejudice of individuals in upper social classes toward those in lower social classes. 00:01:20 DEREK G. TURESKY Lateral Classism is prejudice of individuals directed toward those in the same social class group. 00:01:30 DEREK G. TURESKY And Internalized Classism is feelings of anger and depression resulting from social class expectations, and the perceived inability to meet them. As you can see, each type of classism relates to one's status, mobility, access to resources, power and privilege. Differentiating social class from socioeconomic status generally creates a lot of confusion. Socioeconomic status is traditionally defined by objective demographic variables such as income, level of education, and type of occupation. Alternatively, social class extends beyond those traditional demographics(ph) and includes a more subjective consideration of a person's perceived structural location within an economy and worldview. For example, social class considers not only the amount of material items that an individual possesses, but also the personal emphasis that they ascribe to those items. Some questions to think about as you watch this video include; What was your first memory of social class in your life? What was your most memorable experience with classism? What messages about social class and/or classism did you receive from your family? What would you be ashamed of others finding out about your social class? Other things to keep in mind as you're watching, what do I do that maintains my

sense of social class? How do I feel when I do not belong because of my social class? The psychological impact of social class on mental health is often overlooked. In psychology, we do not just study race, but also racism. We do not just study gender, but also sexism. Why then would we only study social class and not some other psychological phenomena related to social class? Part of the reason that it's easy to overlook the psychological impact of classism is because of some of the following limitations: poor operationalization, strict class hierarchy, limited capability to measure phenomenological experience, relationships, and affect, career issues, credit use, and upward mobility bias. By ignoring the link between psychology and social class, we may be ignoring significant mental health issues such as negative emotions and poor health, health behaviors, anxiety and depression, psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, happiness, environmental demands that create risk affecting other dimensions of life, career transitions, and materialism, consumerism, social causation, and social selection. To better understand how social class relates to potential psychological issues, we are going to present a case example of a graduate student's real life experiences pertaining to social class. Benjie is a counseling psychology graduate student that has agreed to share his experiences with social class growing up in a small mid-western town. Let's take a look into Benjie's life. 00:04:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Hi, I'm Benjie Tallman. Uhm, we're at my house, ah, at, at Cresco, Iowa, where I was born and raised. I went to school at Crestwood High School, and then I went on to, ah, Coe College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa where I received my undergraduate degree and majored in psychology and sociology, then I entered, uhm, right away- 00:05:05 Benjamin Tallman, Graduate Student 00:05:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN - into a doctoral program in counseling psychology where I'm currently a fifth year, ah, fifth year student. 00:05:10 DEREK G. TURESKY As Benjie mentioned, he grew up in Cresco, Iowa, which is a small mid-western town with a population of approximately 4,000 people. He kindly agreed to give us a brief glimpse into his world. 00:05:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN So this is the downtown area. This is where, now we came, and I bought a lot of my clothes right here at Leuthold's, uhm, Spectrum. This, the thrift shop store is here as well. And really, everything is kind of close together so you can walk down to the bakery and, to get a doughnut. We, we didn't spend a tremendous amount of time downtown, but when we do come downtown, it was usually to buy somethin' like, uhm, if I needed a nice shirt, I'd buy it from Leuthold's or the, the grocery stores right down the street freeway. 00:06:00 DEREK G. TURESKY Benjie talked about the importance of hard work in his life and showed us the location of one of his first jobs at Holub's Greenhouse. 00:06:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN So this is where I had my, one of my work. Uhm, I'd worked for, I think three years here in high school. This is Holub's Greenhouse. I think I started out $3.75 an hour, uhm, and then I think, worked my way up, but learned a lot of different skills that I still use today.

00:06:25 DEREK G. TURESKY In addition to working at Holub's Greenhouse, Benjie fondly remembers his time working at a local nursing home. 00:06:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN What I most enjoyed about the job was that, it paid, it paid very well so I wasn't working at, I didn't want to work at the grocery store, uhm, and I really didn't want to do the greenhouse work anymore, so there was really limited options in terms of some of the things that I can do. I could milk cows, I could try to work on a farm somewhere, uhm, you know, gas station, I guess at grocery store, but this was really the, the only opportunity for me to kind of get in some sort of helping professions. 00:07:00 DEREK G. TURESKY In addition to his work ethic, Benjie also discussed the importance of athletics growing up in his town. 00:07:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN It's that most of my friends didn't go to college. A lot of things that I think that led to that were, uhm, athletics, so I was, uhm, I think out of my class, I think we have nine to ten of my friends went to college and ended up playing college football or at least tryin' out for college football. So I think that was a pretty strong impetus for people to, to get into college, ah, and, and even it was for me. I didn't know what I wanted to do in college but I knew I was gonna go to college and play football, not at a division 1 or division 2 level, but a, a division 3 level. And I, I know I could, I, I think my skills were good enough that I could continue to, to do that at that level. Uhm, but, and I think most of my friends kind of wanted to go to school, and did go school, some people finish, some people didn't finish. Uhm, but there was a sense of, I think that's, I think it is, strongly tied to the athletics in, in playing football. And, and, you know, you, you went to school and you, you, you did, you played some sports but you're gonna get education as well. So I think that's kind of a, a foot on the door. 00:08:10 DEREK G. TURESKY After touring some of Benjie's childhood landmarks, we chatted with him about his view on social class. 00:08:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN How do I view social class now? Like I said, I think it's a very, it's a very complex thing. Uhm, I don't think it's just, I don't think it's just money. I don't think it's just, kind of the values that are instilled upon us or the, the, the, the science and beliefs that we receive from kind of our external world but a, a combination of a lot of things. So I guess I have a worldview that our experiences shape who we are, uhm, and those exp, those experiences continue to shape who we are. So I talk about or think about social class, uhm, I think about those diverse set of experiences that I've had, uhm, whether that be the places that I've worked, the people that I've known, and I guess, how those set of experiences kind of shape who I am, whether that be with education, money, the values instilled upon me or the, or the things that I have kind of learned, I guess. 00:09:15 DEREK G. TURESKY We also asked Benjie what shaped his views of social class. 00:09:20

BENJAMIN TALLMAN I would think it is, I'm a, I'm a big picture person. I don't look at the details. Uhm, like I said, I, I, I look at, I take everything that I've had and I kind of try to make sense of everything. So when I try to hone it on, you know, one specific thing out of my worldview which might be social class, I, I, I do find it challenging or I kind of articulate my perception. But I, I, and I think a lot of it is influenced by education which was, you know, kind of the, the values of our self, my parents' hard work from my friends and family, uhm, and really that I can do, you know, my parents told me from early on, you know, you have, well, I guess you, you have a lot of unique gifts and you can, you can do a number of different things. You have a lot of unique talents and, and you can do what you wanna do with those things. So I think that has shaped my, kind of definition and not look of what social class looks like. 00:10:15 DEREK G. TURESKY As we have seen, Benjie's story reflects many implicit and explicit social class themes. He presented the unique perspective of growing up in a small rural town and gave us insight into his social class worldview. So now, the question is, how do these social class issues present themselves in the context of counseling? Clinicians and researchers can help individuals explore their own understanding of social class divisions using the Social Class Worldview Model. So what is the Social Class Worldview Model? The model takes into consideration that, worldview is a type of lens through which we conceptualize our economic cultures. These economic cultures are groups, neighborhoods, and communities that we are all a part of, which exerts unique sets of demands and expectations forcing us to seek a social class position or status. We receive socialization messages from friends, family, and other groups which contribute to our materialistic attitudes, social class congruent behaviors, and lifestyle considerations. Integrating the Social Class Worldview Model into the counseling process begins with helping the client understand their social class and classism experiences, connect affect and cognitions to classism experiences and develop potentially effective ways to change their situations with classism. 00:11:45 DEREK G. TURESKY The Social Class Worldview Model includes four steps. Step one is to help the client identify and understand their economic culture. Step two is to help the client identify the social class messages they received. Step two A is to help clients identify social class behaviors, lifestyles and material possessions which are salient to the client in his or her current situation. Step three is to identify the client's experiences with classism and move toward developing an adaptive, realistic, and healthy expectation about themselves. Step four is integration and action. 00:12:30 An Application of the Social Class Worldview Model in Counseling 00:12:30 DEREK G. TURESKY Now that we have reviewed social class, classism, and the social class worldview model, we are going to demonstrate these concepts in a real life counseling session with Benjie. While watching, be mindful of the counselor's use of, gaining a more complete understanding of potential sources for the client's presenting concerns, developing questions to direct counseling sessions that focus on social class and helping the client frame and reframe his experiences with classism. 00:13:00

WILLIAM MING LIU Benjie, thanks for coming back. (crosstalk) 00:13:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:13:05 William Ming Liu, Ph.D. & Benjamin Tallman 00:13:05 WILLIAM MING LIU And, ah, last week, you talked a little bit about where you grew up and, ah, and, ah, I'm curious about, ah, the town that you grew up... (crosstalk) 00:13:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm, uh hmm. 00:13:10 WILLIAM MING LIU and, ah, what it was like for you to transition- 00:13:15 Step #1 - Identify & Understand Economic Culture 00:13:15 WILLIAM MING LIU - from where you grew up to college and then coming to... (crosstalk) 00:13:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Sure, sure. 00:13:20 WILLIAM MING LIU ...ah, the university? 00:13:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, uhm, I grew up in a really small, ah, northeast Iowa town, a town of about thirty five hundred people. Uhm, basically, a kind of a farming community. Ah so, growing up there were, ah, some opportunities for work, like I was working, on, on farms, I picked rock growing u... (crosstalk) 00:13:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:13:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, built some hay and, uhm, worked on, did milk some cows. Uhm, and in terms of some of the, you know, I guess making that transition from a smaller town to a larger town. When I went to school... (crosstalk) 00:13:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm. 00:13:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...ah, for my undergraduate, it was a much larger community, over a hundred thousand some people. (crosstalk) 00:14:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:14:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, so there are lot more, I guess, opportunities for, uhm, to go out and for shopping, and the food sources, a lot of, ah, a lot of different restaurants and things. So, uhm, money was kinda, kind of potentially an issue... (crosstalk) 00:14:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm.

00:14:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, as a, a student going into a smaller, ah, larger community. 00:14:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:14:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I think just being a student in general, funds were kind of tight at times but... (crosstalk) 00:14:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:14:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ah, the transition was, uhm, and to the most challenging things were kind of the money issues... (crosstalk) 00:14:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:14:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...uhm, and, uhm, just feeling like, well, maybe sometimes I, there were things that I didn't have that other folks have that came to college as well. 00:14:45 WILLIAM MING LIU And when you are growing up, ah, what did you think was important? I mean, what were the... (crosstalk) 00:14:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:14:50 WILLIAM MING LIU ...important things to, to, what were you told? 00:14:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Well. 00:14:55 WILLIAM MING LIU What did you pick up? 00:14:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Sure. You know, from, you know, my parents who I've considered very important role models in my life, uhm, always told me that I was talented in a number of different, ah, venues. 00:15:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:15:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, so I use my talents and my gifts. (crosstalk) 00:15:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm. 00:15:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And, and so I just used my talents and gifts to the best of my abilities, and whatever those talents and gifts, uhm, are. (crosstalk) 00:15:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:15:15

BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, one is is athletics, music, uhm, and, and later so, many more so on kind of my academic skills but I'm just instilled to, to do good for others and use the gifts that God's given me. 00:15:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. So there were expectations to, uhm, go to school and... (crosstalk) 00:15:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Definitely. 00:15:35 WILLIAM MING LIU ...get an education and... (crosstalk) 00:15:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:15:35 WILLIAM MING LIU ...uhm, what was that like when you went to the larger town for college? Did those expectations change at all? 00:15:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Ah, I, I think, ah, with expectation was more, you know, that I would go to college and get a degree. But for me, it was important to, and I, I basically went to school, uhm, with a number of schools to play football. 00:16:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:16:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, and academics at, at that point was kinda second. Well, I knew that I would get a, an education, uhm, but academic, or athletics and then playing football was pretty important at that point in time. So to make that transition over, uhm, from kind of athletics to more as a, as a student... (crosstalk) 00:16:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:16:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...was, that was, was really challenging. 00:16:20 WILLIAM MING LIU So there wasn't any expectation from your peers or family or anybody around, ah, to stay in Cresco... (crosstalk) 00:16:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:16:25 WILLIAM MING LIU ...pr to become a farmer or, but really to do what you wanna do. 00:16:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah. I mean, most of my friends, uhm, went on to smaller schools and, and played collegiate sports. I mean, that's what we, and we had a, a fairly good football team, and most of my immediate friends went on to, I mean, went on to school to play sports, uhm, with the attempt that we would get an education but, uhm, it just seemed like, you know, that the sports was, was pretty important, and the education would come but that was kinda I, guess, secondary. 00:17:00

WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:17:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Hmm. 00:17:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Did you experience any kind of transition in, in terms of different expectations... (crosstalk) 00:17:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:17:05 WILLIAM MING LIU ...moving from where you grew up to college, to... (crosstalk) 00:17:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:17:10 WILLIAM MING LIU ...graduate school? 00:17:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I think the, the expectations in terms of, more I think probably turn to academics... (crosstalk) 00:17:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:17:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...as a, as a, uhm, going from high school to, uhm, graduate school or like high school to undergraduate then, undergraduate to graduate school, where I kind of realized that, uhm, well I was good at football but football wasn't give, gonna give me a paycheck down the road. So, uhm, expectations and kind of from talking with, you know, family and friends and parents that there was less of a shift and well, you know, football was important but more so, now, you're gonna, on education or whatever major that potentially, uhm, maybe than, you know, finding your major then, and then leading up into, ah, graduate school. 00:18:00 WILLIAM MING LIU So it's a shift from sort of the physical attributes that you had... (crosstalk) 00:18:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm, uh hmm. 00:18:05 WILLIAM MING LIU ...to much, much more intellectual attributes that you could develop. 00:18:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Definitely. 00:18:05 WILLIAM MING LIU And rely upon. 00:18:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, definitely. 00:18:10 Step #2 - Identify Social Class Messages 00:18:10 WILLIAM MING LIU You know, as we were talking about where you grew up and your transitions from, uhm, where you grew up to... (crosstalk)

00:18:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:18:20 WILLIAM MING LIU ...college to graduate school, uhm, one of things I'm curious about is, ah, in terms of your own developing idea of your social class. 00:18:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:18:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uhm, what kind of messages that, did you get about social class, from your parents and, say, let's start there? 00:18:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Sure, sure. Uhm, my parents had a mentality of, uhm, I think it's kind of, it has to do with a, a small farming community, as well but... (crosstalk) 00:18:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:18:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...uhm, do good for others, but kind of that pull your strap up by your bootstraps sort of mentality, and I don't know if that was directly from my parents but maybe, ah, kind of the community as whole but, you know, help others do things for other, other people. And so those, those, ah, values have been, have been instilled in me, both of my parents were in the helping professions. Uhm, my dad, a counselor, and my mom was in social work, so I was always kind of around helping professions so I think they kinda stuck with me. 00:19:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:19:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN In terms of, uhm, where I'm at today. 00:19:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Do, as you think back, was, was there any, ah, message that stuck out for you in terms of, you know, was it pull yourself up by your bootstraps? (crosstalk) 00:19:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:19:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Was, did they ever say that explicitly? Or. 00:19:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Ah, you know, not explicitly but, uhm, you know, most of my friends all had jobs, summer jobs, and, and a lot of the times, uhm, you know, while workin' on farms and bale of hay and I, I had a land, landscaping job all throughout high school. Well, those are probably good and I, I, really enjoyed those, but it just didn't seem to be a real fit for me, until I, uhm, got a position as a nurse's aid... (crosstalk) 00:19:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:19:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And which, ah, kind of the helping prof, ah, getting a position in that helping profession in that smaller community like Cresco is... (crosstalk)

00:20:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm. 00:20:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...the opportunities are kinda few and far between so I felt pretty privileged to have that opportunity while I wasn't, you know, directly related to what I'm doing right now but it was kind of, ah, I guess a I guess a foot on the door for me. 00:20:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:20:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN You know, assisting the elderly and, and helping, ah, helping others in that facility. 00:20:15 WILLIAM MING LIU And did you notice any change or was there any change from where you grew up to college? Ah, did the, did you talk about social class differently... (crosstalk) 00:20:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:20:30 WILLIAM MING LIU ...or your own social status differently, in college? 00:20:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm. (crosstalk) 00:20:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Did you notice anything different from yourself? 00:20:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, a, a lot of the, a lot of my good friends from college were from smaller farming communities like myself so either in Northeast Iowa, there are, a lot of my friends from, ah, South East Iowa, and South West... (crosstalk) 00:20:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:20:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Iowa. Uhm, so we really have that in common in terms of talking about, you know, what it's like to grow up in the country, what's like to grow in the farm. (crosstalk) 00:20:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:20:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Based on all these outdoor things, but we also have friends that were, uhm, from larger towns like, ah, a couple of people from Chicago... (crosstalk) 00:21:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and some of the other surrounding areas. 00:21:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:05

BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, so that was really the, the first, uhm, kind of, I guess, ah, experience I had interaction with people from, you know, other larger communities and just, you know, sometimes kind of the way they dress seemed to kinda have the, the cutting edge things. (crosstalk) 00:21:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN The kind of the, the fads... (crosstalk) 00:21:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and all I had, you know, ah, I, I think the fads... (crosstalk) 00:21:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...in Cresco, it would take a little... (crosstalk) 00:21:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...longer to get there. 00:21:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:21:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, but they would seem to have the, uhm, the more, like I said, cutting edge or the... (crosstalk) 00:21:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...maybe some of the up on the fads. 00:21:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Now, did that send a particular message to you? Did you. 00:21:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:21:40 WILLIAM MING LIU What, what did that say to you about yourself and, and your relationships? 00:21:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Well, I think that, you know, it made me definitely question kind of, you know, and coming from a smaller town to a larger town... (crosstalk) 00:21:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:21:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN You know, you know, what's smarter(ph) or am I gonna continue to kinda take on the same, you know, smaller town... (crosstalk) 00:22:00

WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, you know kind of values or, you know, is it important to have nice clothes? Is it important to be able to... (crosstalk) 00:22:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...uhm, intermingle and associate or, or be in larger communities... (crosstalk) 00:22:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Like I said, Chicago? 00:22:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Right. 00:22:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And I guess how that's progressed is, uhm, why I received a lot of those kinds of larger messages. (crosstalk) 00:22:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I think I've, and in kind of my development in the graduate school... (crosstalk) 00:22:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Is I kind of held toward those, uhm, smaller kind of community, ah, values but I've... (crosstalk) 00:22:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...really opened up my kind of, ah, uhm, I guess awareness into a larger kind of social class issues... (crosstalk) 00:22:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and a lot of different, uhm, I guess areas... (crosstalk) 00:22:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:22:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ah, of social class and not just, uhm, one specific. 00:22:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Now,- 00:22:50

Step #2a - Identify Social Class Behaviors, Lifestyles, & Material Possessions 00:22:50 WILLIAM MING LIU - what would be the biggest difference between sort of your values as you grew up and, (crosstalk) 00:22:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:22:55 WILLIAM MING LIU and the values that you experienced in college... (crosstalk) 00:22:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:22:55 WILLIAM MING LIU ...in this transition and meeting new people from, ah, more, larger urban areas? 00:23:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Sure, sure. Uhm, I think a lot of it, maybe some of the materialistic things... (crosstalk) 00:23:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh-huh. 00:23:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Maybe, uhm, like the need for the clothes and those, (crosstalk) 00:23:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Those sorts of things that wasn't, I mean, and it's still that entirely, really important for me to have kinda nice things but... (crosstalk) 00:23:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...maybe that that's just kind of my personality as well but I, I... (crosstalk) 00:23:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...have things what I use and I, (crosstalk) 00:23:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I don't, I kinda run things down 'til I'd, can't use them anymore. (crosstalk) 00:23:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And, uhm, well nice things are important. (crosstalk) 00:23:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:23:35

BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I'd rather, uhm, I value the relationships that I have and those sorts of things and not, I guess, the materialistic things that... (crosstalk) 00:23:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:23:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, yeah, of that, if I'm, particularly, (crosstalk) 00:23:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:23:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN and not so much the materialistic things. (crosstalk) 00:23:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:23:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN But, uhm, kind of the relationships that I have with, with other people. 00:23:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. So it sounds like it was more important for you to develop, ah, your friendship network, your... (crosstalk) 00:24:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Definitely. 00:24:00 WILLIAM MING LIU ...relationships that you had to, to have, to expand that network of yours, (crosstalk) 00:24:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:24:05 WILLIAM MING LIU right? 00:24:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:24:05 WILLIAM MING LIU And, ah, has that paid off in any way, in terms of expanding your social network? 00:24:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, I, I think so. Uhm, you know I, I still keep very close contact with, you know, probably five or six of my friends from high school... (crosstalk) 00:24:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:24:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and maybe three or four of my friends from, ah, college but they're right now all across the, ah, all across the country and... (crosstalk) 00:24:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:24:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Ah, you know, it's nice to be able to talk to them and get their perspective and visit them in different areas of the, whether it be the... (crosstalk)

00:24:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm. 00:24:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Northeast or the, or the, or the south? But... (crosstalk) 00:24:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm. 00:24:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...you, you know, I've, I've always, ah, enjoyed my, ah, enjoyed my friends and, and, and it's important for me keep contact and communicate with, you know, friends and family members in my life. So I think it's paid off in a number of ways, just from the support I've received from others. (crosstalk) 00:24:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:24:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN But you know, continue, continue to foster those relationships, that's something that's really important. 00:24:55 WILLIAM MING LIU So it sounds like one of the values that you took from where you grew up and transitioned into college. (crosstalk) 00:25:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:25:00 WILLIAM MING LIU And even know is really the importance of friends and... (crosstalk) 00:25:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Definitely. 00:25:05 WILLIAM MING LIU And the value of expanding the network and, and, ah, ah, keeping that as an important part of your life. 00:25:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm, definitely. Ah, it's, it's an extremely important aspect of my life. 00:25:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Good, thank you. 00:25:15 Step #3 - Develop Adaptive, Realistic, & Healthy Expectations 00:25:15 WILLIAM MING LIU One of the things that, ah, you mentioned, uhm, a little earlier was, ah, that you noticed the materialistic... (crosstalk) 00:25:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:25:25 WILLIAM MING LIU ...differences between yourself and, ah, the friends that you had... (crosstalk) 00:25:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm.

00:25:30 WILLIAM MING LIU ...or you met, in, ah, in college. And, uhm, I'm curious about, did you, at anytime, or, or was there any point in time that you felt bad that you didn't have the same things that other people had? 00:25:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. Oh sure. I think there's, uhm, pressures all the time from being in high school and, (crosstalk) 00:25:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:25:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN and having a nice car. (crosstalk) 00:25:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:25:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, to even in, uhm, you know, ah, undergraduate, to have nice things, nice clothes and those sort of things. 00:25:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I think a shift started to take place in undergrad, when I was in my undergraduate. 00:26:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN In that, I didn't view things so much more as the materialistic things but more so as, as a thing of function. 00:26:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:26:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN So, if I've got a car, if it gets me to point A to point B, (crosstalk) 00:26:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, you know, that's good. I've, (crosstalk) 00:26:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ah, ah, that's what's more important than how the car looks. Well, (crosstalk) 00:26:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN well, it's nice to have, you know, nice things, nice car, nice clothes, (crosstalk)

00:26:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, you know, I, I guess the way I've progressed is, what function is it serving? So, (crosstalk) 00:26:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:26:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN like my computer is a, a really important aspect... (crosstalk) 00:26:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:26:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...of, of my life. (crosstalk) 00:26:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:26:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Right now. I mean, it's, I do my work from my computer, the internet, research, and those sorts of things. (crosstalk) 00:26:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN So, I spent a little more money on my computer than I say, I would say other things. 00:26:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Right. 00:26:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, but, and I think as that progression is taking place... (crosstalk) 00:26:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:26:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...it's been more so, uhm, I've looked at things as how they function, how they, ah, function in my life. 00:26:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:26:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And not so much try to be caught up in the, (crosstalk) 00:27:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, materialistic things. 00:27:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN But, you know, definitely feeling those pressures... (crosstalk)

00:27:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:27:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and sometimes, you know, succumb into some of those pressures. (crosstalk) 00:27:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:27:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN You know. 00:27:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Well, tell me about those pressures. I mean, what, what have you noticed, ah, is one of the, ah, big pressures for you in terms of... (crosstalk) 00:27:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:27:15 WILLIAM MING LIU ...ah, uhm, is it materialism, is it, what is it? 00:27:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, ah, you know, I think it is, I think it's, clearly as a graduate student... (crosstalk) 00:27:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and not making a tremendous amount of money, (crosstalk) 00:27:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, and but yet, viewing myself as a professional... (crosstalk) 00:27:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:27:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and, and, and, you know, having collegiate relash(ph), relationships... (crosstalk) 00:27:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...but not necessarily having, you know, the nice house, (crosstalk) 00:27:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN the nice car... (crosstalk) 00:27:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:40

BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...all those, you know, things that, you know, that, that a lot of the, we, that lot of the messages I received from other professionals. So, (crosstalk) 00:27:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:27:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN you know, clearly, uhm, all my, well, I should say that a lot of my other friends are, you know, in fairly high paying jobs and really gettin' a, a study paycheck each month. (crosstalk) 00:27:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:27:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And they were able to have, uhm, a lot more of those materialistic things, (crosstalk) 00:28:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:28:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN whereas I might have to cut back here and there of the things that I, I, I can, uhm, have just because my, my income is, is... (crosstalk) 00:28:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:28:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...not, uhm, you know, not, not at that level. So, (crosstalk) 00:28:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:28:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I'm definitely looking forward to when I have, ah, a study paycheck, ah, (crosstalk) 00:28:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah, yeah. 00:28:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN coming after I, I, I, you know, I have to find a job. 00:28:20 WILLIAM MING LIU What, what it's like for you to interact with your friends who have more things and... (crosstalk) 00:28:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:28:25 WILLIAM MING LIU ...nicer things? 00:28:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I, you know, I, I think it just brings a sense of, you know, that'll be nice when I'm able to, to do that. Uhm, and, you know, that's not to say that right now I'm not, I don't have a lot of the things, you know, that I have in my life. 00:28:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm.

00:28:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, but it would nice, be nice to have a little extra cash here and there to do things. 00:28:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:28:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, you know, my friends are all pretty, they know the situation that I'm in and I also have friends that are in... (crosstalk) 00:28:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:28:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...similar situations when they're still in school but also have a full-time job. So, (crosstalk) 00:28:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:28:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN some where able to relate more than others, (crosstalk) 00:29:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, but for those individuals that do have, you know, full-time positions and, and are able to have money and nice things, (crosstalk) 00:29:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, you know, I, I think they're understanding but yet, you know, it's more so, boy it'd be nice to have some of those things at some point... (crosstalk) 00:29:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...in time. 00:29:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. So, it sounds like that's, ah, a wave, ah, yeah, a way you've adapted to the situation... (crosstalk) 00:29:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:29:20 WILLIAM MING LIU ...that, ah, it's down the future, down, (crosstalk) 00:29:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, yeah. 00:29:25 WILLIAM MING LIU down the road but it's okay that I don't have it right now. 00:29:25

BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah. I'll, you know, I'll make to do with what I have right now and, and going back to what's, you know, what's functional, what's most important right now is, (crosstalk) 00:29:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN you know, transportation. It's not the, you know, what, what kind of nice car that I have... (crosstalk) 00:29:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...but more so, if I can get from here to here, (crosstalk) 00:29:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:29:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN that's good. And, and, uhm, you know, if I'm able to do the, the main things, you know, in my life. (crosstalk) 00:29:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:29:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN One, you know, ah, you know, take care of my wife, take care of our, our pets and... (crosstalk) 00:29:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:29:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...pay the rent each month... (crosstalk) 00:29:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:29:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...is important. 00:29:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Have you ever experienced somebody, uhm, treating you poorly or looking at you negatively because you didn't, I don't know, uhm, have the nice things? 00:30:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Ah, yeah, I'm sure there are times, I can't think of anything specifically, but I think, yeah, I think more so maybe in, ah, as an undergraduate and there's more pressure to maybe have the, you know, on the nice shoes... (crosstalk) 00:30:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:30:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...or the, you know, a nice coat or whatever it may be. 00:30:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:30:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, and I, I'm almost positive there is, there were some pressures.

00:30:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:30:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I can't think of anything specifically... (crosstalk) 00:30:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:30:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...of, ah, the top of my head that I was treated in a certain way because of, uhm, I guess, the, a lack of materialistic things that I have. 00:30:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. But in some ways it sounds like, uhm, that wasn't really all that important for you... (crosstalk) 00:30:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:30:50 WILLIAM MING LIU ...in the first place in terms of the material, ah, materialism. And so, if somebody treated you that way, it probably didn't impact you as, as much. It wasn't that... (crosstalk) 00:31:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, yeah. 00:31:00 WILLIAM MING LIU ...much of a value for you. 00:31:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I mean, ah, I think there was a transition point in there. I think I mentioned... (crosstalk) 00:31:05 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:31:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...as I got into, ah, my undergraduate, I kinda progressed through that, that there was a point in time where I did feel pull to have nice things. (crosstalk) 00:31:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:31:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And, but then you realize that you, you know, you make do with what you have, you can't, ah, I, I, I could have gotten a part-time job. 00:31:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:31:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, like some of my other, uhm, classmates. 00:31:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:31:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN You know, at, ah, at my undergraduate school. Uhm, but I chose not to, I chose to devote... (crosstalk)

00:31:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:31:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN more time with athletics and then it became, devote more time to academics... (crosstalk) 00:31:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:31:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...at that point in time. Ah. 00:31:35 Step #4 - Integration & Action 00:31:35 WILLIAM MING LIU We've talked a lot about your sense of yourself as a, as a, in, in terms to your social class position, (crosstalk) 00:31:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm, uh hmm. 00:31:45 WILLIAM MING LIU social class status. Uhm, have you ever talked about this before or ever thought about social class in your life? 00:31:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah. Uhm, you know, I think more so as I became more familiar with the concepts and the terms and more so in, in graduate school... (crosstalk) 00:32:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Okay. 00:32:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...but, you know, kind of looking back at my life and, and just to some of the social classes you said that come into play. 00:32:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, I definitely think there was a, a, a lot more opportunity and more resources for just... (crosstalk) 00:32:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...a lot of things, (crosstalk) 00:32:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, ah. 00:32:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Now or before? 00:32:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Now.

00:32:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Now. 00:32:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Now, now it's coming from a smaller town to a larger community and then, you know, to kind of a, to kind of an in-between, you know, I would say it's kind of in between, (crosstalk) 00:32:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, community. 00:32:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN But just becoming more aware of different classes and, you know, going back to my hometown and, and seeing... (crosstalk) 00:32:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah(ph). 00:32:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...the, you know, that there's two different taverns in town and one, (crosstalk) 00:32:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN one tavern, uhm, is more so for the, a lot of the folks who have more kind of, uhm, I would say high paying jobs. 00:32:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:32:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN But there's a definite, uhm, a definite, uhm, in, in terms of where people are going at... (crosstalk) 00:33:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...into, into, uhm, (crosstalk) 00:33:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN the community but. (crosstalk) 00:33:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Did you notice that before when you were living there or is that something now that you go back, you, you sort of see that differentiation a lot more? 00:33:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN I, I see the differentiation a lot more, (crosstalk) 00:33:10

WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN uhm, you know, definitely looking back, I think I probably was aware of it. 00:33:15 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, you know, growing up but not, not to the extent that I am now in, (crosstalk) 00:33:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN in, you know, in kind of, ah, looking at things in terms of social class issues. (crosstalk) 00:33:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And, you know, whether it'd be resources that people have or opportunities. 00:33:30 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, but it took, ah, it's, it's an awareness that I have on, on a much kind of greater level and, (crosstalk) 00:33:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN and also my own kind of social class and... (crosstalk) 00:33:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:33:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN where I'd come, I kinda perceive myself... (crosstalk) 00:33:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...right now. 00:33:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, as definitely developed from the last couple of years and more so the last couple of years... (crosstalk) 00:33:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Yeah. 00:33:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and even in, in undergraduate.

00:33:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Would, would you talk a little bit about that, what, (crosstalk) 00:33:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, yeah. 00:33:50 WILLIAM MING LIU what, how you've come to the point you are right now? 00:33:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah, yeah. Uhm, uhm, you know, I, I perceive myself as like I said, a young professional. 00:34:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And why I am, I'm a young professional, I had, there's still that kind of, one financial disconnect. 00:34:10 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:34:10 BENJAMIN TALLMAN So, I perceive myself to be in maybe, one kind of, ah, social class and that, and, and having a lot of opportunities, there's still... (crosstalk) 00:34:20 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...I guess, ah, there's an economic piece there that is maybe, ah, not prev, not preventing me but I know that... (crosstalk) 00:34:25 WILLIAM MING LIU Yes. 00:34:25 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...in some point in time, I will be able to have some of the, the nicer things that would be nice to have and, and be more financially stable, uhm, for that, for my wife. 00:34:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:35 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, but, you know, there's just an awareness of, you know, where I lived at in this community. 00:34:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:40 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm, and, you know, where other, ah, how other I guess places are in the community and... (crosstalk) 00:34:50 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:50 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...I'm just more aware of, you know, I, I just still feel very privileged for the things that, (crosstalk)

00:34:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN that I have in my life. 00:34:55 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:34:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN And, and, and I'm able to kind of see other places... (crosstalk) 00:35:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. 00:35:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN ...and other communities that, uhm, might not have as many resources. (inaudible ). 00:35:04 WILLIAM MING LIU Some of the, uhm, things that you don't have like lack of money... (crosstalk) 00:35:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:35:15 WILLIAM MING LIU ...right now, and, (crosstalk) 00:35:15 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:35:15 WILLIAM MING LIU and you're able to sort of strike a balance and, and see, (crosstalk) 00:35:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah. 00:35:20 WILLIAM MING LIU you know, you do have some benefits, you do have some privileges. (crosstalk) 00:35:20 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Definitely, definitely. 00:35:25 WILLIAM MING LIU I wanna take advantage of those right now. I don't need to, uhm, ah, I can live without all the money right 'coz, ah, it's gonna be coming in the future. 00:35:30 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uh hmm. 00:35:30 WILLIAM MING LIU So, it's, it's okay. 00:35:35 WILLIAM MING LIU Well, I mean, that's, ah, there's, there's still a definite, ah, you know, if it's the, ah, not having all those financiers are still definitely, ah, straining at times but, (crosstalk) 00:35:40 WILLIAM MING LIU Sure. 00:35:40

BENJAMIN TALLMAN you know, given that I have, ah, developed a flavor for, you know, nice food in the community... (crosstalk) 00:35:45 WILLIAM MING LIU Uh hmm. Uh hmm. 00:35:45 BENJAMIN TALLMAN and, uhm, so there are definite things that I enjoy, that I wanna do, that, and be able to have some of those things but we have to sacrifice in other areas... (crosstalk) 00:35:55 WILLIAM MING LIU All right. 00:35:55 BENJAMIN TALLMAN of our life to have some of the things that we want. 00:36:00 WILLIAM MING LIU Hmm(ph). 00:36:00 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Uhm. 00:36:00 WILLIAM MING LIU That sounds like you, you and your wife have been able to strike a nice balance between. (crosstalk) 00:36:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Yeah. 00:36:05 WILLIAM MING LIU With all these... (crosstalk) 00:36:05 BENJAMIN TALLMAN Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:36:10 WILLIAM MING LIU ...drawbacks, good. Thank you. 00:36:10 William Ming Liu, Ph.D. 00:36:10 WILLIAM MING LIU The session that you just saw was a demonstration of the Social Class World View Model. The Social Class World View Model is a subjective phenomenological, uhm, examination and exploration of a client's social class experiences and his or her experiences around classism. The reason why the Social Class World View Model is so important is that it shifts us away from focusing on income, education, and occupation that's the only ways that we can talk about social class. What I've argued in the past with my writings is that these indices don't allow us to talk about the phenomenological experiences, the personal experiences and the relationships that, that people have, and the struggles that they have around social class and classism. So, the Social Class World View Model is an attempt, a theoretical model of linking a person's, ah, economic culture, their social class world view and their experiences with classism. In the illustration that you saw with Benjie, ah, the steps were broken out into four different areas. The first of which was- 00:37:20 Help the client identify and understand their economic culture 00:37:20

WILLIAM MING LIU - to help Benjie explore and for me to understand the context in which he grew up. That's what I conceptualize as the economic culture. It's the neighborhood, it's the peer environment that socializes him to develop and to prioritize and va, ah, and to value, ah, certain aspects of himself. And as you saw and as you heard from Benjie, he transitioned from evaluation of his, ah, physical attributes to more of his intellectual attributes, and those were a part of the socialization messages that he received as he transitioned from his hometown to college and then to graduate school. The second area- 00:38:05 Help the client identify the social class messages he or she received 00:38:05 WILLIAM MING LIU - that we focused on was the socialization messages that he received around social class. What did his peers talked about, what did his parents talked about, how do they communicate social status and social class to him as he was growing up? And how did those messages, ah, change as he transitioned from his hometown, to college, to graduate school? What I expect is that the socialization messages changed and that as pe, as they change, people have to adapt to them, ah, as a means to maintain a sense of well-being. The other thing that we focused on were, as part of the socialization messages were, ah,- 00:38:50 Help the client identify the social class behaviors, lifestyles, and material possessions salient to their current situation 00:38:50 WILLIAM MING LIU - what were the important things that he needed to have or to do in order to keep up with his peers? So I break this out into areas such as materialism developing, ah, uhm, ah, peer network, ah, lifestyle considerations. And for him, it sounded like, ah, it wasn't so much that the materialism and having things was important, but the important thing for him was to develop his social network. 00:39:15 Identify the client's experiences with classism and move towards developing and adaptive, realistic, and healthy expectation of themselves 00:39:15 WILLIAM MING LIU And so that was, ah, a value that he had that he carried through and his extensive network has paid off in terms of, uhm, helping him see who he is as a, ah, social class, ah, individual. 00:39:30 Help the client take action and make changes in their life 00:39:30 WILLIAM MING LIU In the fourth step of the model, the client and the counselor work to integrate the exploration that's just taken place between the client and the counselor. All these social class information, experiences, the experiences with classism that the client just talked about are integrated into this last piece. And so the client is given an opportunity to talk about what it was like for him in terms of his social class transitions from one, one context to the other. The other part of the Social Class World View Model, this last step, also asks him to, ah, take some action now that he's learned more about himself. And it sounds like in this particular case with Benjie, he's already done that for himself. Now that we've done this exploration with Benjie

about his social class experiences, what I'd like to do in the future with him is to help him understand himself better as a social-classed person. This is an important multicultural competency that we can integrate not only with his sense of self as a White individual, as a man, but also as a privileged individual. And all these pieces can come together to help him understand himself better, but also to help me understand himself better as a client. 00:40:45 Final Thoughts 00:40:45 WILLIAM MING LIU The last piece for counselors in training that's really important is that we have to do our own work in terms of understanding ourselves as a social class person. We also have to do our own self-exploration about our own traumas and experiences around classism, our own social class transitions and to do that self, self-awareness piece that's so important in multicultural competency. We have to do that work before we can work with our clients effectively and to understand how our experiences might impact our work with clients around social class. 00:41:25 DEREK G. TURESKY Social Class is all around us if we are willing to become conscious of it and willing to struggle around this topic. Of course, before we can be effective with clients, we need to do the difficult work of becoming conscious of social class and classism in our lives. We also have to become aware of the ways in which we have been affected by classism, especially the scars and traumas related to these experiences, as well as the ways in which we perpetuate classism. All of us have these experiences of classism which have shaped how we see ourselves and how we may relate to people. Entering into a discussion about social class and classism is difficult for a number of reasons. First, we are often not trained to conceptualize social class as part of the client's experiences. But second and more importantly, social class and classism have been relatively tabooed topics for conversation. It is much like asking a person about his or her income. It is impolite. You may get an answer but it may (inaudible ). Opportunity to meet, engage and deliberate with clients about their social class base experiences to help them potentially integrate these experiences into new learning. It is our hope that this new learning will allow us to have a better appreciation for the powerful effects of social class on our clients, ourselves, and our world. 00:43:10 Directed by: Jay M. Greenfeld & Derek G. Turesky Supervising Producer: William Ming Liu, Ph.D. Executive Producers: Jay M. Greenfeld & Derek G. Turesky Written by: Jay M. Greenfeld & Derek G. Turesky in association with: The Social Class Research Team University of Iowa Elham Bagheri Alice Fridman William Ming Liu, Ph.D. Amina Mahmood Jovan Hernandez Narration by: Derek G. Turesky Counseling Session: William Ming Liu, Ph.D. & Benjamin Tallman Edited by: Jay M. Greenfeld & Derek G. Turesky Technical Director: Andy Small, The Video Center, Iowa City, IA Credit Music by: Georgey Paul, Muzaki Music A special thanks to: The University of Iowa Technology Grant The College of Education, University of Iowa Psychology & Quantitative Foundations, University of Iowa Counseling Psychology Program, University of Iowa DVD Mastering: Peter Stassa Davideo Company Framingham, MA www.davideocompany.com Microtraining Associates, Inc. 888 - 505 - 5576 Email: