Christian Theism in Human History:

Listen (Transcript) : America's Birthday: The Real Story

Ryan, a few weeks ago, we heard a

profound message from pastor tommy Nelson. You remember that I was called America,

the great idea. And basically what he was saying was that

America is not a piece of land

or a group of people. It's an idea. It's about liberty

and freedom and those inalienable

rights that we enjoy here in

this country. Yeah, you know

what he had to say reminded me of a quote from Benjamin Franklin. It says Where

liberty dwells, there is my country. And I love America. I love the

freedoms we enjoy, but I know that even I sometimes take those

freedoms for granted. Well, he really isn't every day that we

pause to think about the enormity of what

led to the birth of this country and how incredible it

is that well, over 200 years later, we're still enjoying the majority of

those freedoms. I don't think that has occurred anywhere

in world history. And there's a

reason for it. Now, the fourth of

July is Sunday, and it will be celebrated, of course, on Monday. And I think it's very appropriate that we take some time today to

reflect on the glorious, the history of the

American Revolution to help us do

that is one of the foremost Christian

American historians, David Barton. David is the founder and president of

wall builders, which is passionately

dedicated to educating the public on America's

forgotten history. And he rose, especially

when it comes to our moral and

spiritual heritage. David has written many

bestselling books on the topic and

was named by Time Magazine as one of America's 25 most

influential evangelicals. So I'm excited

about David Barton allowing us to share his message with our

listeners today. Well, Im2 doctor,

I know as a mom, I have got to be very intentional in

making sure that my son's really understand the truth about the

nation's history. I mean, another broadcasts

that comes to mind. I remember Dennis

Prager recently admonishing us to almost commemorate the

4th of July, much like the

Jewish people did when their ancestors were

let out of Egypt. And I really think

today's program could be the basis for

something like that for families this weekend. I agree, Luann,

I love history. I can't wait for

this broadcast. And he highlights the

Christian faith of our founding fathers and how their knowledge of the scriptures

directly lead our desire to secede from Great Britain here now as David Barton on this

family taught broadcast, specifically talking about this holiday we're

going to celebrate. We approach another

birthday in America. And each year is again, another record setting

year where the longest ongoing constitutional

republic in the history of the world. And if we rolled around at the 4th of July

every year, we do like to celebrate

it and we do have the the fireworks and the other festivities

that go with that day, but it's become

today with us so many people don't understand the roots

of American history, the roots of the

American Revolution. If you ask them what the revolution was

about, they say, Well, it was taxation

without representation. That answer really

goes back to something that

happened in the 1920s. In the 1920s, some

revisionist historians called Charles

and Mary Beard, came up with what

they called the economic view of the

American Revolution. And a day that's

what we teach. We don't teach the

spiritual side, we don't teach that the

constitutional side, all the other issues

that were there, even the biblical side. We used to in

previous generations, to understand the

American Revolution. To understand what we celebrate on the

4th of July, you really have

to go back a 150 years before the

American Revolution. You have to go

back to the time of the Pilgrims

and the Puritans, settlers that

arrived in America. Now, if you ever get to

go to Washington DC, you'll see there

in the capital a picture of the embarkation

of the pilgrim's. It shows them gathered

around a Geneva Bible. It was a popular

Bible with the group called

the dissenters. Those are the people who didn't really think that everything centered

around one person at the top of every

organization, whether it was

church or state. They really were quite

anti autocratic. And the people that had started that group go

back to people like Luther and Calvin and Zwingli and knocks

and the reformers. And so the significant

thing about the Geneva Bible was its marginal

commentaries. Those commentaries

were written by the reformers and

they point out that God had so many

different ways of governing divine right of kings says all monarchies, the only way we do this, god has a single leader at the top of the state, a single leader at the

top of the church. But here came these

reformers say No, there's the priesthood

of believers. Each of us can

go to God on our own through what Jesus

Christ has done. Each of us can self-govern ourself as citizens. They were persecuted

for having those views, those anti

autocratic views. And finally, the

pilgrims said, we're out of here. We're going to

America where we can read and study the Word of God

for our self without being

persecuted for it. And so they arrived

here in America. Now when they arrived

here, the Bible is a very significant

book to them. There are so many aspects

of American culture today that came from the Puritans and

the Pilgrims, and that came

specifically from the Geneva Bible,

what we call The free enterprise system that came out of

1st Timothy 5, 8, according to

the pilgrims, that's a system

they found. You'll, you'll find

that they were in the habit of

finding things in the scriptures

and trying to literally apply them in a civil government

into education and alive and a

family into church. It's a matter of

fact, that's where the first education

laws came, were out of New

England is 642. They pass that law

in Massachusetts. That was, if you

will, a public school law that day, that the purpose of public education was

to teach kids to know the scriptures

so that they can judge both the church

and the state. But what God has said

in the Scriptures. Well, five years

later, Connecticut pass that same law. It says because if

you can't read, you can't read

the Word of God, and you therefore

can't judge the loss of the state against the Word of God, which means that we in

the General Assembly might pass a bad law and you folks

wouldn't stop us because you can't

read the Bible. We judged everything that went on against

the Word of God. And this is the

real backdrop to the American

Revolution. Now, let me go

through those, some of those

sermons and show you the type of things that

we preached about. Because this does give you a good indication

of how that, no matter what went on, we went to the Bible to see what the Word of God

had to say about it. I, for example, you'll

see here a sermon. This is a sermon

preached 1804. This is a sermon on

a solar eclipse, which had just happened

in Connecticut. Here's a sermon from 799, and this happened

in Massachusetts. And it was a hail

storm and a tornado happened on the

second of August. It says here

on the sermon. And so the next

Sunday the pulpits were filled with

sermons on hailstorms, tornados, and here's

what's called an execution sermon at

the sermon from 796. It was priced at Salem, January the 14th, 796. It's occasioned by

the execution of Henry Blackburn

on that day for the murder of

George Wilkinson. Here's someone

being put to death by civil government. And there's a sermon

on that execution. Absolutely. You say, we went

back and said, what does the scripture

say about this? Is this something civil government

can really do? What is Romans

13 mean when it says that the

government doesn't bear the sword in vain, one is a government

even have the sword. What does it use

the sword? Is this a justified use of the sword by

the government? And we just went back and looked at the Scriptures. No matter what went on, we went to the scriptures. Here's a sermon,

this is from 1803. It's called an

artillery sermon. What happened

was once a year, they get that the military together and brought

ministers and to preach these artillery

sermons that his sermons on what

the Word of God says about the military. See nothing went on

that we couldn't find a biblical

precept with. So for a 150 years before the American

Revolution, we had been trained in

our culture to look at every single thing

from the Word of God. And that is literally

how we approached it. Now, it was

because of that training that

we were able to recognize when King George the Third came along, that he was transgressing

those loss. Not only was he

transgressing biblical laws, he was transgressing the British constitution

at that time. And the founding

fathers to saying, these are things

that have been in Great Britain

for 4500 years. They'd been worked

out, they'd been set down in law. Constitutions

work this way. Rights work this way. These are sovereign, inalienable rights

that God has given man and King George the Third,

you're violating that. You can't do this. So it's striking

that is you look at the first

reactions of the Americans against

the policies that King George the Third was imposing on America. You will find

that it takes a very strong biblical tone. Probably the first

person to write about these violation of rights was James Otis. And James Otis is really

that the man who, who mentored Samuel Adams, the father the

American Revolution, james Otis is the philosophical

underpinnings. And in a book that

he has right here, it's from 1766 is called the rots,

the colonist. And then this

came out because of the Stamp Act of 1765. Now the Stamp Act for

taxes, and of course, the Americans objected these taxes and the way

that they were being imposed on the

Americans and for the purpose that they

were being imposed. And the Americans

had no voice in determining their

own policies and, and so it was taxation without representation. But notice how

they go back to the Bible and I

say that king st, look, I'm the King,

I'm the authority. I am the top here. This is the

divine right of kings when I speak the same as if God

speaks to you. And James Otis

says, No, no, no. He says timeout,

let's back off here. And so in this running,

which is really the first objection raised in what became the

American Revolution. James Otis says this. He said the power of God, Almighty is the only

power that can properly and strictly be called

Supreme, an absolute. He said You're

not infallible. He said, only God is infallible and we don't obey you as if you're God, which is the same

thing that you'll find with the Apostles

and x4 and five, when the civil authorities

told them Don't do this and the

apostles said, No, wait a

minute, timeout. God, Jesus told

us to do this. Now do we obey God

or do we'll pay you? And of course,

the apostles chose to obey God and that put them in direct conflict with

civil authority. And this aspect of, if you will, civil

disobedience. If you even look through Hebrews 11 at

what we call the faith Hall of

Fame and look at all of those individuals

who are in there. It's striking how

many are there simply because of

civil disobedience? The Hebrew midwives. And why did they make

it into that chapter? Because they

disobey the order of Pharaoh to let them know when a

young child was born so that young

child could be killed. They protected Moses. Chad rack, may

shack and unbidden ago there are heroes, they're in that chapter. Why? Because they disobeyed a

civil authority. They would not bout a man. They were going to stand

firm, forgot Daniel. He works his way

into that chapter. Why? Because he said, I'm not going to obey

a civil law that causes me to

violate God's laws. Another person who

spoke out about this very strongly man

named John Dickinson. John Dickinson

was a sign or the constitution

after the revolution. And he declared a

similar sentiment. This is from his writings on the rocks,

the Americans, he says kings

or parliaments cannot give us the rights essential to happiness. He says, We

claim our rights from a higher source. We claim them from

the King of Kings, lord of all the earth. But at this point people say Now

wait a minute, this is called the

American Revolution. Romans 13 says Your to

submit to authority. How can you say

that God bless this nation if it was

birth in revolution, that is rebellion

against God. God can't blessed

nation that does that. Well, you have to

understand first off that the founding

fathers did not call it the American

Revolution. It was called that

in later years. At that point

in time it was called a civil war. And as they point out,

they didn't start it. Matter of fact, we

took great pride in the fact that we never

fired the first shot. We never sent troops to

attack Great Britain. The Americans, they

did not have an army. They did not have a navy, but they did have

the Biblical right to defend themselves. And that was one of the inalienable

rights by the way, that the founding

fathers put in the Second

Amendment the right to keep and bear arms. They pointed that in

the scriptures and you can see that

throughout Nehemiah. Nehemiah, what do

you do when he was rebuilding that the, the, the city of Jerusalem, he's Station them

with a sword in one hand and a

trail on the other. You have the right to defend yourself

if your attack. For 11 years, we've been negotiating over

these principles. And finally,

King George the Third says, I

don't negotiate. You are going to bow your knee and he

sent these troops. So it was not a

revolution in that sense. As a matter of fact, there's some great

statements here. Here's one by Sam Adams. Sam Adams wrote this to the British government,

and Sam Adams, signer of the Declaration, a member of

Congress, he wrote this to the

British officials. He said, you know, that the cause of

America is just, he said the blood of the innocent is upon

your hands. We again make our

solemn appeal to the God of heaven to decide between you and us. And we pray that in

the doubtful scale, a battle, we may be successful as we have

justice on our side. And that the

merciful savior of the world may forgive

our oppressors. And that's not an or heat, that's

not rebellion. I mean, they are sincerely submitting to

God and saying, we gotta stand

for what's right. And we ask God to

judge between us. Ethan Allen, his

Green Mountain Boys. He was approached

by citizens and the legislature

of Connecticut. Connecticut was

really scared. They said, man,

here we are between Virginia

and Massachusetts. British troops have gone into Williamsburg,

Virginia. British troops are

going through Lexington and Concord,

Charleston, boston, Bunker Hill, were

scared to death, are going to come

in to Connecticut next and we don't know

what we're gonna do. Ethan, would you take your Green Mountain Boys and go over here

to New York, way inland, go

to Ticonderoga and capture Fort

Ticonderoga. So Ethan took Green

Mountain Boys, they surrounded that

Ford in May of 1775. It was late at

night. Poor British didn't know anything

was coming. I mean, this is a long way from any scene of action. So they knocked

out the guards. There were two guards. They knocked them out,

they tied him up. They got the rest

of the barracks. This was late at night,

coming up toward midnight and they get the rest

of the barracks. And then Ethan Allen, after having secured

the whole four, it went and banged on the door of the

common dot. Captain de Laplace. And Captain de

Laplace be in the proper British

soldier that he was didn't like being awakened in the

middle of the night. So he came storm into

the door and he says, Who is this? What

do you to demand? And Ethan Allen says, I order you to

surrender your four. And Captain de Laplace became indignant,

and he says, by whose authority do you order me to

give up my forte? Ethan Allen in his

own autobiography, he took a step back. He raised his

sword in the air. Ethan Allen said,

in the name of the great Jehovah and the Continental

Congress. And it was that

declaration, the great Jehovah in the

Continental Congress and got the attention of the British commander. He promptly gave him

the fort on the spot. Not a single

shot fired they captured for without

any loss of life. You see nobody hears that about Ethan Allen anymore, but that was the

declaration made then 776, one of the members of the Virginia

legislature. Now remember, Virginia

has been under attack. One of the members

of the Virginia legislature was

a minister. He was the Reverend John Peter Gabriel

and Mulan Berg. In January of that year, he had just heard

the report, a Patrick Henry and have

that he had to rally 5000 Virginia troops to push back the British. And, and so as pasture me Lundberg

heads home, he gets to this remote, secluded part of

the state where his churches are long

way across the state. And he preached

on January 21st, that Sunday, what became

his farewell sermon. And he stood there in his clerical robes

that morning and he preached out of

Ecclesiastes 3 verses 1 through rate, which is the

passage about, though there's a time

and a season purpose to everything tied to be

born, time to die. Well, they went

through all this and you get down to verse 8. And verse eight

says there's a time of peace and a time of war. Any

closest Bible. And he put his finger out and he said brethren, he said this is not

the time of peace. He said this is

the time of war. He stood right in front

of the congregation, started this roaming in front of the congregation. When he jerked off,

there's clerical robes. Underneath those

robes, he was wearing the full uniform of an officer and

the Continental Army sword and everything. He started marching down the out of that church. There was one aisle

down the middle the church, he

marched on an island. He preached as he went. He said brethren.

He said We came here to practice our religious and our

civil liberties. And if we don't

get involved, we're going to lose

those liberties. He said, Who's going with me to defend

those liberties? While 300 men got up and met him at the back

door, that church, those 300 man

became known as the eighth

Virginia Brigade. His brother was pasturing in, in New York City. And his brother wrote

him a scathing letter. And I mean, he just

absolutely chewed him up. And his brother was Frederick Augustus

Mulan Berg. And Frederick

tells his brother, he said you would have

asked for the best if you'd kept out of this business from

the beginning, he said, I now give you

my thoughts in brief. I think you're wrong. That's just about as

brief as I guess. He said, Brother, you shouldn't

have done this. You're supposed to

stay in the pulpit. You shouldn't be getting involved in this

kind of stuff. Well, brother Peter

wrote back a letter. He said, Wow, we

said that was a pretty scathing letter. You wrote pretty,

pretty serious stuff and he said

you've accused me of getting involved and that I shouldn't because

I'm a clergyman. This is what he said. He said, I am a clergyman. It is true, but

I'm a member of society as well as

the poorest layman. And my liberty, he says, Dear to means it

is to any man. He said Shall I had

been set still. He said, heaven forbid it. He said, I'm

convinced this my duty so to do and duty I owe to God

and my country. And then he

started metal and with his brother he

said, Oh, by the way, he said Frederick is, Do you realize you

couldn't stand here and pulpits and

do what you're doing. You couldn't

stand there and preach the gospel

if it wasn't for people like me going out to the finger, right. To preach the

gospel and Vertigo. Yeah, Yeah, right. Just kinda blew it off. While interesting thing

happened in 1777, the British invaded

New York City. They came into

New York City. They seized his

brother's church, they desecrated

his church, and they chased him

out of the pulpit. And suddenly this minister of the

gospel, Frederick, who said you shouldn't

be involved, has lost his church losses and ministry. It's

been taken over. He says, you

know, maybe how to get involved after all. So he does get involved. Do you know the

Frederick Augustus mean Lundberg is

Frederick Augustus. Real number was the

original speaker of the US House of

Representatives. A matter of fact, there's only

two signatures on the Bill of Rights. He, he and John Adams. So the only two to sign

the bill of rights. And this minister, the

gospel sign it not because it guaranteed separation church

and state. You say He got involved and make sure

that government couldn't come in and stop those public

religious activities like they had done

to his very Church. Not because a separation

of church and state. Move through

other instance in the revolution,

for example, if you go into 778,

you may recall that year because that's the famous Valley Forge year. You remember

Washington crossed the Delaware and after

crossing the Delaware, they went into the battles at Princeton and Trenton, and finally settled

down in Valley Forge, which was that

tough winter. And so every

day Washington would go out

and walk among the troops and try to

encourage them and keep their

confidence up and put a good face

on himself and, and try to look like

the good commander. But what he wrote

in his diary was a whole

different story. It just literally tore

his heart out to see what those soldiers

were going through. Every day. Between 12 and 20 soldiers fell over and died

in that camp. Every day at Valley Forge, died of malnutrition,

of sickness, of starvation

that they died of exposure not

having closed, being exposed to cold

weather washes that. I've never seen

sacrifice like that. I've never even

read of it, never heard of this. This is the

greatest degree of patriotism he

had ever seen. Well, it's

interesting that when the intelligence

came to him and may, the British are

breaking camp in Philadelphia, they are

about to march out. So that night he writes

at his final order, and he's the rats

out his final order, which was given

unmade the second 778 in Valley Forge. He said guys, he said, I've seen what

you've done. I've senior sacrifices. I can't tell

you how much I appreciate what

you've sacrificed. Words, can express it. And then he closed

with the statement, this is right out of

his orders, he says, but while we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers with all

the sacrifice. He says, We certainly

ought not to be inattentive to the higher

duties of religion. He said to the

distinguished character, a patriot, it should be our

highest glory to add the more distinguished

character of Christian as Washington

in the middle of Valley Forge from the most sacrificial times in

American history. St guys, I love

you patriotism. I just gotta remind

just more important to be a Christian than it

is to be a patriot. See it has the aspect to the American

Revolution. We don't hear

anymore and it's a strong spiritual aspect. While we finally

get into 780 one, which is the final battle of the American

Revolution, the Battle of Yorktown. And so at the

Battle of Yorktown, we are able to

convince Cornwallis to surrender and he does

military actions over. But it would be

two years before Great Britain

was willing to admit that it

had been beat. Finally, in 1783,

the peace treaty was negotiated and signed. What was the very first

line of this treaty? This political treaty

is said in the name of the Most Holy, an

undivided Trinity. Amen, as the opening line and the name

of the Father, Son, the Holy Ghost. Now, we've

acknowledged God. We said God at

the top. This. Now let's talk about the terms of

surrender here and who's gonna

get what and how are we going

to divide america? See, that was the

opening line, even the final

peace treaty. From start to finish. This was remarkable. Open declarations of God. Now when Washington

and finally got the word that

they've signed the treaty is now

officially over. He turned in his

resignation. And then he had

13 copies of that That made and sent

to the governor's. He he's told

the governor's. He says, I now make it my earnest prayer

that God would have you and the

state over which you preside in his

holy protection, that he would most

graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do

justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity,

humility, and peaceful

temper of mind, which were the

characteristics the divine author of

our blessed religion. And without a

humble imitation of his example and

these things, we can never hope to

be a happy nation. There's Washington,

yeah guys, we won. But remember if we

don't imitate Jesus, we're not going to

be happy nation. Now that's not

the economic view of the American

Revolution. We here today. And so here we are to celebrate

the Fourth of July. What's the best way to celebrate the

Fourth of July? Well, maybe the best

way to celebrate it is the way that John Adams said it should

be celebrated. And if you want

a good read, go to the public, elaborate, get

the letters of John Adams to his

wife Abigail. This is like a blow by blow account of

what was going on the American

Revolution. And this is what he

predicted to Abigail on that day over

200 years ago, he says, I believe

that this day will be the most

memorable epoch in the history of America. And then he wondered

whether we should really celebrate what

they had done that day. Is that something that

should be celebrated? And he finally

decided that it was, if we celebrated

throughout way, what's the right

way to celebrate? According to John Adams, he said This

day ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance

by solemn acts of devotion to God. All my, you see in

America for generations, the 4th of July

was a holiday. And so as you celebrate the Fourth of

July this year, enjoy the fireworks, enjoy the family picnics

and festivities. But don't forget to

make this a day, a commemoration By solemn absolute devotion

to God Almighty. The way that our

founding fathers intended it should be. What, an adventure. This has been our

guest historian. David Barton has

walked us through the American Revolution on this family talk with

Dr. James Dobson dead. What better way to enter into this fourth

of July weekend? Well, what David Barton had to say was

just marvelous. Ryan and I would

like to comment on his reference to

Hebrews Chapter 11, which theologians refer to as the heroes

of the faith. And that chapter recounts the stories of

patriarchs who made it clear that if they're

forced to choose between obeying God and obeying the king

or pharaoh, or in our day, Congress or the president. There's a contradiction between those two things. We will choose to obey the King of Kings

and Lord of Lords. And that simple

concept guided the founding fathers

in the writing of the Constitution and

the Federalist Papers, and the other materials that come down to

us from that day. Our ultimate

responsibility is to God Almighty. And he's the one who

gives us our freedoms. And if we forget that, we have nothing left. And doctor, if there's a mom or dad out there who need some help instructing

their children. In the next level,

we have all kinds of resources that my

family talk.com, I really would

encourage them to go there,

check those out. There's a lot of help

for parents who really want to pass this on as you've just described. And we'd love to hear how you celebrate

America's birthday. Let us know on

our Facebook page or email us at my family talk.com or even call us and

tell us about it. Our number is

877732682587773260825. Have a great weekend and make sure to be

with us Monday. When all here an

amazing story from a decorated war hero who fought to preserve

our freedoms. Don't miss it.

Listen( Transcript) : America's Enduring Legacy

Hi everyone, Ryan Dobson here today for

your course study, you'll be listening to

a patriotic edition of family talk with our

guest, Bill Bennett. Here now is Dr. James

Dobson, family talk. Welcome to this special

Memorial Day addition of family talk with Dr. James Thompson and I'm Luann and I'm Ryan Dobson. And we have a great

show planned for today, focusing on the

history of America. And it's very appropriate that we do that, Ryan, because we're

remembering today all those men and women

who've given their all to defend and

protect our nation. And, and all of

that stands for going back to the very

birth of this country. And we honor all of

them today by hearing stories about

our country's founding from my friend

Dr. Bill Bennett, who is a

distinguished scholar on American history. He's written a three volume series on the topic called America

last best hope. And this conversation

that we're about to hear focused

on volume one, going back to

the early days in America's

glorious history, Dad Doctor Bennett

has written 20 books with a number of them being

best sellers. And the three

volume series you mentioned has

actually been turned into a curriculum

for public schools. He has a law degree

from Harvard and hosts his own radio program called Morning in America, heard on the Salem

news talk network, which I tune into

every morning, Ryan, as I'm getting

ready for work. I appreciate Dr.

Bennett so much. This gentleman has had

an amazing career, which includes serving in cabinet level positions in both the Ronald Reagan and Bush Sr.

administrations. We're so pleased to once again feature

this discussion, which we'll pick

up with where Dr. Dobson asked him about

the title of his book, which again is America the last best

hope here now on this family top

broadcast is Dr. Thompson's conversation with Dr. Bill Bennett. I don't ever

remember starting an interview with an

author by saying, what's the significance

of that title. But in this case, I want you to express it. It's Lincoln's

words, of course. So many of our words

about our country, our Lincoln's or

Washington's. He said in a speech, a talk and a message.

He said to Congress. He said, we shall

nobly save or mainly lose this last best

hope of Earth. The words are beautiful as they often are

with Lincoln. What perhaps is more interesting is

when he said it, he said we were the

last best hope of earth after the

Battle of Antietam, sometimes called the

Battle of sharps berg. The bloodiest day in

American history, still 211000 casualties, 22000 casualties

at that battle. And Maryland, not far

from where I live, I drive out there

sometimes an early morning and look at

the battle scene. It was touch and go. It wasn't clear whether this nation would survive. It was unclear whether the Union would prevail. Lincoln was a sailed

on many, many sides. I've sent a number of messages to the

White House along with the book about reading about

Lincoln during his time. His cabinet was

not with them. The man who was running the war form

General McClellan, people thought

he might take, try to take control of the government

and military. In fact, give the North, had lost that battle, Lincoln would

have probably been thrown out of off he, they were very close to Washington and there

was that chance, there was the chance

at Gettysburg, you're exactly right. And I mean, it

was touch and go. It was not at all clear that we

would survive. But Lincoln said

at the time, we are the last

best hope of earth. And it struck me in writing this book

at this time, that it's right

to say it again. If you are sitting

in some God forsaken place

in the world, if you have hope. If there is a military coming over

the hill with a flag, what flagged you

want it to be. Despite what our

critics say, people all over the world want it to be the

United States, the flag of the

United States. I came to Washington's

deliverance. I came to Washington

to hear you speak when you were

Secretary of Education. And you used

the phrase then that you've referenced

in this book. Again, you call it

the gates gates test. Yeah. I remember that day. I don't smoke for us. Explain what the

gates tests. I refer to it in the book. You're absolutely right. I, when I was secretary

of education, I taught at a 120 schools

around the country. And a young woman in

San Diego said year, you obviously love

the countries that I'm not so

sure about it, but why do you think

it's such a great place? I said, Well, it would take I'll give you

a reading list, but I said I'll give

you a short answer. I said every country

has its gates. I said, and when a

country raises its gates, you want to find out

about the country. Look to see which

way people run. They run in or

do they run out? I said when we

raise our gates, people run in. When we don't raise our

gates, people run in, which is why we're talking about this

immigration issue. Other nations raise their gates and people run out. I said that's a

very good test of what a country has

end from the beginning. People have fled

to this country, have looked to

this country, has given that

historical fact and the way it is today. Isn't it amazing

that there's such a sizable number of people in the media and in the liberal

community that despise this country in

its freedoms are doing everything they can to undermine it. It's never been this bad in terms of the media. I wouldn't say that presidents haven't

had it this hard. They have.

Lincoln was one. But in terms of the media, it has never

been like this. David McCullough

says that, that if the Washington

or Lincoln had, had to face the press and the press reports

that you'd have now, these things wouldn't have been one if Washington and if the reports

of the battles, Washington lost

more battles than any general

in modern history, luckily won some big ones and he ate a pulsar. Very good

surprises of that. If had been reported, the discouragement would

have been so great. But what you, you've

made reference a minute ago to the fact that this great experiment

in liberty that Dell Lincoln spoke about is not a foregone

conclusion. Absolutely could

lose it can those and it's

probably in as much danger right now

as it has ever been, including the

revolutionary war. I think it's a

very serious time. And the question I have is whether we have

the cultural resolve, the

moral resolve. No doubt about

our soldiers, no doubt about

our military, their ability

to get the job done and the kind

of people we have. But whether we

have a culturally, whether we will call things by their

right name, whether we will endure. The founders. And I talk about this

in the book. Hoped that we

could survive for a 100150 years. That

was there. Oh, yes. Because places

of this size, democracies,

republics just don't have a history of

surviving very long. So we've, you know,

we've set a record. But the question is, Jim, as you say whether

whether we will endure, I do think I don't want to just hit the thing again, the cliche about those who don't study history are condemned to repeat it. But one of the

parts through, one of the parts

of the book that people have picked up on is our war with

the Barbary pirates in the 1800s. This is our Muslim, so it was our first

war with Muslim. You know what

they were doing? They were

kidnapping people, holding them for ransom. And at the time

this was going on, there were about

a million and a half Christians being held slaves by Muslims,

muslim warlords. And they were taking our ships and then

making us pay ransom. And Jefferson and I kinda ON and

OFF Jefferson. Yes, no, I gotta

tell you on this. When he said, we're not

going to take this, we're not going to let these people get

away with this. And John Adams, he said, I'm not sure you can

fight these people. Why? So I think if you

fight these people, you will be fighting

them forever. This is 8800. 8800. Well, 200 years later, the fights to the cause of the religious

fanaticism that values death. Yeah, Now, I'm

not implying that all Muslims

or violent, I'm sure of what I've been told that the

vast majority are peace loving people who would do us no harm. But a small percentage of a big number is still

a very big number. And there are, I'm told, 1.2 billion Muslims on

the face of the earth. And if 10 percent of them believe that

Quran instructs them to kill infidels, which would include us. That is a 120

million people who would give their

lives to destroy us. But let's assume that figure is

grossly overstated. If only 4% are fighting the jihad

or holy war, that still means 48 million people

want to kill us. That's at threat of

enormous proportions. When you start talking

about nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction,

you're exactly right. And that's 40 million. We saw at 19 could do. On 9, 11, Bernard Lewis, who was the great

scholar of Islam, retired professor

at Princeton. I was with him

not long ago. I asked him the

exact question. I said of the 1.2 billion, he said ten to 15%. It gets it up

to 200 million. I mean, it's a,

it's a whatever, whether it's 50 or 20. And that explains why you say our national life. That's right. And

then we stretch. And then we look at

the numbers out of Great Britain where

they did those polls after the July 7th

killings in, in London. And 13 percent of Muslims in London said they supported the

suicide bombers. 13 percent of 2.2 million and that's a significant

number of people. Now you know what IN planned for us to

talk about all this on this program

because your book is. Not just on the

threat to this. And they show it's

the great heritage of iterations

and the stories. We've got a whole lot more to talk about here. We're in the middle

of a fascinating conversation on

this family talk broadcast with our

guest Dr. Bill Bennett, talking about American

history appropriately. So here on this

memorial day, if you can't

be with us for the rest of our time

together, remember, you can catch us online at my family talk.com. We'll rejoin their

conversation now as Dr. James Dobson and Dr. Bill

Bennett tackle the dark parts of

America's past. Courseware imperfect. We have some very embarrassing components

to our history, slavery, and some of what we did to Native Americans

that was evil, that was wrong, right? But there's also an awful lot

that's good here. It's less than perfect. But find me a better one. That's right. And

the amazing thing about America is when

I tell the story, I mean I tell the

stories of the, of the, of the

wicked things, the atrocities and in

a non blinking way. But the amazing

thing about this country is

the capacity to recognize a problem

and to deal with it. Sometimes it takes

us to long as it did with slavery

and emancipation. But we get there.

But this capacity to set it right,

self-renewal. One of the figures

in the book, giant figure for

me from Frederick, Frederick

diagnose guy that I knew you're going to say that he just is just

larger than life. And I love this quote. He meets Lincoln

and someone says, You met the president

and you know, it's black man goes and

meets the president, says yes, he says, What did you think of

the president? He said, Well, he's intelligent but he's

got some growing to do. Yeah. I guess if

you are a slave and you gain your

freedom one day by, you know, when you're,

the man they had on the plantation there

in eastern Maryland, who was there as

the slave breaker. This is the guy who's to break the will of a slave, anybody who shows

any gamete. And when Douglas turns

on him and pins him, he realizes the help of a couple other

people too. He realizes than that

there's only one way you can go and that's

all out and strong. And so then he

goes, he goes to Boston, he goes north. But he remains a very strong supporter

of Lincoln, a very strong Republican. I'm just historical fact,

I'm not advocating, but it's not uploading now auditory

political editorial. And again, his, his way of presenting things and his impatience for justice and his talk with

a number of his, of his friends were very active to get the

vote for women. And he said

Fine, important, but us first, they're

not lynching you there. Lynching us where

first, your second. They wanted him to

put things on equal, putting me say one thing, that Constitution

had not one word in it that authorize slavery that had the

foundations width. And at that end it's

like exactly right. He said that and

in saying that he, he said something

which was then later picked up on by

Martin Luther King, who goes back as

Douglas did and as link to the

founding documents, to the Constitution. But even more. And

of course, you know, this is a big debate

among the scholars, which is the document, the constitution,

the declaration. I'm a declaration man. For a couple of reasons. We hold these truths to be self-evident

that all men are created equal

and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable

rights. And Douglass goes back and says that's the

foundation, the foundation

of our freedom. But he is a fabulous,

fabulous character. I do all these, all

these wonderful. We are jumping around

chronologically here at rebelled this

because that's the way that conversation

has unfolded. But you spent a lot of time talking about

George Washington, where he was not

just the father of our country and

the first president, but the character of that man comes

through, Yeah, explain why my

favorite story, it's a commonplace,

but I love the story. It's about character.

At the end of the war, a lot of the soldiers

wanted to march on Philadelphia to

get their money. And Washington was trying

to discourage them. Not a good way to

start government, which to hold the Congress

at bayonet point. I understand

the temptation. I've been there. That's not a good

idea. So he's trying to persuade

them to use. Another one of his things is he was not a great

public speaker, but he remembered

something that someone had given

him a slip of paper. So he pulled it out of one pocket to the

other pocket, he pulled his

glasses out and his men had never seen him with his spectacles. And he noticed

that he heard the crowd goes silent. And he said, I

see that you notice that I

wear glasses. He said, Well,

it is it was to be I have not only

grown old and gray, I've become almost blind in the service

of my country. That simple one rehearse spontaneous

statement and everyone

started to cry. They were reminded

of who this man was and what he had

done for the country. The respect for him, one of the ironies I talked about was so great. That several of

the founders pointed out that

we almost blew it. We almost went

back to monarchy because the regard

for him was so great. The first proposal for

his title, you know, they had and

we had renamed things we had to rename or Commander-in-Chief would

be the first title John Adams came up with. It was his

glorious highness, the President of the

United States and glorious protector of the liberties, of

our liberties. And William Macleay

from pennsylvania said, What's with atoms? Doesn't he understand what we fought this thing for? It's to get rid of

all that stuff. But yes, Such was

the regard for whatever reason that

I consider him to be such a hero is right

along this point that almost no one in human experience

gives up power. Thrillingly, That's right. It is intoxicating. And once you have it, you don't want

to let it go. And he could

have been king, but he served two

terms as president and would not accept

even a third term. And, and you talk about greatness that really

speaks to make, the world was watching. And George King,

George said, it was this moment whether he would give

up his power. Said, if he gives

up his power, as he said, he will he will be submitted

at the world. And he did, he say, he did it without a

moment's hesitation. Has another of your

heroes in this book? This is one story

right after that, give you a sense of

pride and dignity. Not arrogant pride, but thankfulness and

gratefulness for the leaders that, that the Lord gave us. And especially when

we consider what was going on in the rest of the world at that time. I mean, the

French Revolution resulted in all this, the killing in

the streets. And, and then of course, the British said had

their civil war. And here right in the

middle of that is this ultimate statement of a representative

form of government. A government

of the people, by the people, for the people that makes

me want to cheer. You, want to defend this country

and it makes me angry when I hear the media assaulting

what we have stood for. And I know well, let's press on that bill. Let's turn our

attention now to our 26th President, Theodore Roosevelt,

who really had just about everything going for him when

he was younger? Yes, had the had the silver spoon

had had all that Harvard but didn't let it hold them back. A guy just full of

energy and drive for, for his country,

full of patriotism. When he was pleased, Commissioner of New York, he walked to

beat at night. He walked into the

middle of the night to find out if everybody

was doing their job. He was an extraordinary

human being who had a deep end and just pervasive sense

of right and wrong. When he went west out into the Dakotas where he developed his great

love of America. He, these, these two guys had stolen

something from him. He went out, the

captured them, brought them back,

both of them back. They can speak softly

and carry a big stick. Show us that it's still kinda makes

sense that yes, we have an American

put a chorus who was kidnapped

by rests solely, who's this chieftain in? Barbri chieftain. And some question about whether as an American citizen, Roosevelt assumed he was

an American citizen. And this, this chieftain over

there in Morocco takes, kidnaps him and Roosevelt gets a wire back and he sends a wire back

immediately. Sit proto Keras

alive or dead. No, don't mess with

the American citizen. I want my citizen

back or you're dead. I will send the

US military with all its might. Come back to what

I was saying, how impressive

our entrance into Afghanistan was and the beginnings of

a rack and where American military power

is used when it's, when it's

presented, it needs to be unambiguously

powerful. It should not be sparing. It changes. You want

to go in there, get it over with

and get out. And I think our

willingness to exercise military power

in a way that is unambiguous is

in some ways a measure of our

internal confidence. Now, I'm sounding bloodthirsty

to the audience. I just want to

point out, remind people the last seven times that the United States military

has been deployed. It has been deployed

to save Muslims. To save Muslims, go

just go through it. Iraq, Kosovo, Kosovo, some Afghanistan, Somalia,

exactly right. I mean, just you

just keep going and we have done this and done it and have liberated in the last

seven deployments, 50 million or

more Muslims. I am proud of the

work that you've done with this bill. I do hope. That our listeners and especially their

older kids, will read this bot. It's not a heavy tome. I tried to. It's the

great story of America. I mean, in the

story is full of romance and drama, and comedy and humor and characters like you

wouldn't believe. This is a place not only where people have dreams, but the dreams

actually come true. They really do come true. You have called

it in fact, the second greatest

story ever tell. Absolutely. That's after the story

of Christ coming. That's curious is the greatest

political story. It is the greatest story and people come

here and hope. And in one of the reasons I wrote this

book was to correct the revisionist stuff I told you last

time I was here, there was a history book. They've now changed it that defined

the Puritans as people of the 17th century who took long trips. People from

England because they didn't want to get into the religion thing. Now, because that's not appropriate to talk

about in schools, don't you and yours alone. So I said Puritans are like Super Savers

or something. Nothing to do with faith. This country was

built on that. The title of the book

is America the last best hope volume one from the age of discovery

to a world at war by Dr. William

J. Bennett. I have the best

days gone forever. I don't think it's nice. I think her greatest

days are still atoms because the influence now on the world

that we've had. I mean, the founders

helped read last 150 years when we beat that

record by bunch. And now we move on. But this is the challenge. The challenge

that is before us is discretization. Such rich and informative conversation

we've heard today on this family talk

broadcast with special guest Dr.

Bill Bennett, Dr. Dobson, it occurs to me that this was simply the perfect

discussion for us to hear on Memorial Day. And Ryan as President Ronald Reagan once said, If we forget what we did, We won't know who we are. And it's fitting on a day in which we

recognize those who have fallen in the service

of their country that we remind ourselves of exactly what

they died for. As we've heard today, regardless of our

spots and blemishes, and America does

have plenty of them. We are still the greatest nation in the world. And I pray that our listeners will

reflect the day on how we can continue to be that shining

city on a hill. And do so in memory of those

who had fought and died over the centuries

on our behalf, dead, that is very,

very well said. And listeners should know that we can offer them all three volumes of

Dr. Bennett series, again titled America,

the last best hope, which has been made into

a school curriculum. And I think that would be especially perfect

for homeschooling families to get hold of. Laura and I will look

that in our future. Just look for

that at my family talk.com or you can ask about it when

you call us. Our number is

87773268 to five.