Hate crime

Jm: Ok so we’re going to go all the way back to when you first started using, so when you first used, were you straight away using every day or did it take you while to kind of build up to using every day?

P: so obviously with the crack, I was using the crack for about every single day for about a year before I started using heroin, and then it started, it was gradual, then it would be something like once in every two weeks, and then obviously once a week, you know, and then it becomes daily,

Jm: yeah, and can you remember then the thought that occurred to you when you realised you were using every day? Was there a point when you thought about that?

P: yeah

Jm: do you remember what you thought?

P: I thought what the fuck am I doing, what have I become, what happened,

Jm: and at that point when you realised that happened did you try to think about not using?

P: yeah, I thought about it, but I just, you think you’re not ready, you think I’ll sort it out tomorrow, I’ll sort it out tomorrow, you know and then the next day then, it would be like a cluck for the crack, but then I knew that if I had crack then the heroin was going to follow, so it wasn’t that I was just addicted to the crack cocaine, it was that, it was the physicality of the heroin, so maybe I associated, cos I don’t think crack is physical, it’s much more psychological addiction with crack cocaine, whereas heroin maybe, in hindsight now I was addicted to the heroin but would buy the crack first cos that was the routine of

Jm: and did you talk to your partner about, did you have this conversation with your partner?

P: yeah, of course definitely,

Jm: how did those chats go like?

P: we would just speak about, you know, this is not how we wanna live, do you know what i mean, remember the days when we were clean and you know, crying, upset, disgusted with what we’d done to each other, blaming each other, you know and obviously like waking up in the morning and just saying fucking come on, get up like, you know what I mean, we need to go out, we need to make money, you know, arguments would start you know and then it becomes volatile, the alcohol as well

Jm: how much do you think you were drinking then?

P: what, like in the beginning?

Jm: yeah

P: fuckin hell, wake up in the morning have a can, and then, just to start the day like, do you know what I mean, and then we’d go out like, looking for money, it was steady, you know, about like, maybe ten cans a day

Jm: that sort of level yeah, so you had the chats with your partner, did you talk to anyone else about it then?

P: I was too embarrassed, I was too embarrassed, obviously like my family noticed like the change in me, like my appearance, my hostility you know, the anger towards, but you hide it, but you hide it so well, you know you do, and so basically we isolated ourselves, from family, from friends, who are not using you know, you try to appear normal you know,

Jm: so had your ex partner, had he been using heroin before you started using it together then?

P: erm, I’m not sure, I’m not sure, I think probably he had tried it,

Jm: but it wasn’t that he had a habit already and you picked it up from him?

P: no, it was his two friends people who we went to school and scored drugs off, they’re like smoking crack and then they were doing it and we’d be like chilling

Jm: before you like started using were the friends that you and your partner used to hang about with, were they all use heroin and crack or were there some people that didn’t at all?

P: there were people that didn’t , but then we like introduced other people into it as well, it’s bad

Jm: and did anyone, did your family ever say to you look something’s going on

P: yeah, they knew, tried to, because it was a very violent relationship as well you know, my parents used to, just wanted my family, and my friends they wanted, people I’d been friends with for years, who had never taken anything hard drugs at all like, like Sonia what the fuck you doing, and then it was, it became the case then that if you’re on that don’t bother coming to my house, we got children here Sonia you can’t come here all fucking drugged up, or drunk or high or erratic you know

Jm: you said about other people you were using with, did they say anything about you don’t wanna be joining us on this

P: no

Jm: did they say anything about it?

P: no, it’s just they don’t care if we’re using, they don’t care, all people were, especially people who were heavily using they only care about their fix they don’t give a fuck and do you know what I mean, they don’t care if you’re using too, it was an extra person to, I don’t know, go out stealing with, or enjoy a buzz with or whatever, you know, you become selfish you do

Jm: makes sense, and so here, it is in this part that you and your partner lost your place?

P: erm, yeah it was, it was yeah

Jm: and so, talking about just the bit when you had a place then what was your daily routine then, so you’d normally wake up in the fairly bad way, and need to get yeah,

P: wake up in the morning we’d like, as soon as we’d wake like, we’d save like a can or two, from the night before, cos we knew like we’d like to have drink in the morning, so like we’d get up, we’d have a little drink, and you know, like get ourselves ready whatever, and then just go out then, just trying to raise money to obviously

Jm: would you have a boot in the morning as well or not normally?

P: sometimes, sometimes, yeah

Jm: you know you get some people who will religiously always have some left for the morning or a little bit left, were you like that?

P: no, because we knew that tomorrow was a new day, we’d have people ready to buy, you know like we’d go out, like we’d go to asda steal tvs computers, laptops do you know what I mean but we had somebody who was ready to buy that so we knew that all we had to do was just go out, do the one job, both of us there two hundred quid you know, go and score some crack, score some brown and then, that was it like

Jm: yeah. and so for this bit here like, money wise, if saying the average money you were pulling in every day, obviously I guess if you were working with your partner you’d have to divide that by two, which one do you reckon it was? Still D? Yeah. And so do you think you were good at doing thr raises, you and your partner?

Up to 20:47

P: yeah

Jm: did you always go to the same places, did you go to a variety of places?

P: cos at this point we still looked clean, do you know what I mean, even at our heaviest use we, we’d steal nice clothes, they still were clean do you know what I mean, clean looking and so maybe we looked less suspectable, than people who have got like dirty finger nails, also it was easy for us to go shop lifting, you know we dress up you know, we looked like a lovely partner going shopping, and whatever you know

Jm: just walk out with a trolley and no one says anything yeah. And had you both been into crime when you were teenagers? Did you have any prison sentences before this time?

P: he was, in and out of prison for years,

Jm: for?

P: violence, theft, burglaries things like that, but not me, I got done for shop lifting when I was about twelve,

Jm: like most people have done yeah,

P: I wasn’t known to the Police, I wasn’t known to like social services or anything like that, I had a good up bringing you know what I mean,

Jm: When you were picking up together, would you just go backwards and forwards for ten bags?

P: not just like, we’d like stay at drug dealers houses and things like that do you know what I mean, and sometimes, even though we had a flat, we’d like, we always stayed down for a couple of days do you know what I mean but then we’d do our raise, do our thing but then obviously we’d have to go home, clan up do you know what I mean, we’d go home then with our a score, maybe we’d go with a couple of days worth, do you know what I mean, then we’d just lock ourselves in the fucking flat then, do you know what I mean, you got your bits yeah

Jm: , so were you doing your raises in the valleys or Cardiff at the time?

P: all about he was driving, so we’d go to like Cwmbran, Blackwood, Swansea you know, you know, wherever like

Jm: were you organised, in the morning did you have a plan exactly where you’d go?

P: yeah

Jm: did you go scouting out one day and then go on the rob the next day? Do you remember how you decided to do it all?

P: it was exactly like that, he got done for conspiracy of, I can’t remember what they called it, burglary, whatever, but we were going from like asda stores to asda to store to asda store because we knew like what tvs to get cos we knew like how the alarm system was working, we knew this, we knew that, so even if e didn’t go scouting out one day, we’d go back out the next day, we did that sometimes, you know what I mean, he done over pubs and restaurants and things like that you know, for all the alcohol, big lumps of meat and all things like that, you know

Jm: how long had you known him?

P: I’d known him since I was about ten, I’d known him a long time,

Jm: through his teenage years he got quite highly skilled and trained up?

P: yeah,

Jm: and before you two got together he went out with his mates to do the same thing?

P: yeah

Jm: and when did you and him get together?

P: two thousand and five, june two thousand and five

Jm: and had you used crack before that?

P: yeah

Jm: uh huh, and this time around here, you were still maintaining the same sorts of relationships with your family? That you were talking and there was some tension?

P: yeah yeah yeah

Jm: and before you got with him did you have more straighter friends?

P: definitely, like, if like, people who I bothered with, say you know eight to ten years ago, my friends say if they see me now, they would be, fukin hell Sonia, what has happened?

Jm: do they know what you’ve been up to for the past seven years?

P: course they do, they do, but you know, I haven’t maintained contact, with them because obviously, we’re embarrassed of the lifestyle that I lead or the lifestyle that I have lived you know, I am embarrassed and I’m ashamed,

Jm: but if you got, supposing you got your own place, and as you’re not using much at the moment, would you give those friends a call and try and get back those friendships going again?

P: yeah, I think so maybe,

Jm: and why do you think your use here was suddenly going up like that so quickly do you think?

P: cos, and I say this to everybody, I never felt addicted to drugs, like he was, and I was addicted to him, I felt like he was my drug you know, I chased him, and then he was chasing the drug, I was chasing him, and I just went along with it because, you know because the mentality of because I can’t beat you I’ll join you like, you know, and I’d rather be with him while he’s out scoring while he’s doing this than him be out doing it and be sat waiting without him, yeah, you know what I mean, that’s how it was,

Jm: can you remember the first time you woke up and felt a cluck in the morning, can you remember that?

P: yeah, I thought fuck me this ain’t good, do you know what I mean I was Ill, Ill shaking, cold

Jm: and did that lead you to think any more things about yourself at the time?

P: I did feel worthless, you know especially, if I was a stupid person or if I was, say for example some people, here anyway, you know you meet people in this environment who tell you, you know, about their life and some people have been in and out of the care system, and they been like abused, and like they say about the bad things that have happened to them, it’s kind of understandable then, you know they been like using drugs since, heroin, since they were about nine or something, ten, you know, I think fukin hell, I’m grateful, I’m lucky that I’ve also got the knowledge of normality, then, do you know what I mean, I know what normal is, I know clean living, I know, and that is what keeps me sane, that’s my goal right now, that’s my ambition, I want to go back into employment I want to, you know, I want my life back like, do you know what I mean,

Jm: yeah definitely, I think you’ve got the culture and the social skills to get out of this

P: yeah, and if I didn’t, if I’d been in and out of the care system all my life, who do you turn to, what if this is all you know then, how the fuck do you get out of it you know,

Jm: yeah, I think that a lot with a lot of people I interview, I think what can you actually do

P: where can you go, what can you do, how do you, if you don’t know any different, then how do you educate these people, how do you try to help them if that’s not what they know

Jm: it’s a difficult one, a difficult one, so this bit, this whole period, were you doing the same type of raises, so did the two of you get a place back

P: we were, erm, what happened was, even in the is increase period we were raising say, I don’t know a hundred and fifty pounds a day, or more actually, say two hundred pound a day, and say it would be a fuckin quarter of cannabis some drinks some fags that’d be it, maybe like a bag, or something, at the end of the night you know, and then at this point, even though our heroin use was only say three bags a day our crack use was a lot higher so, do you know what I mean it was a lot higher, plus obviously because the usage was a lot higher we’d have to put more in petrol in the car we’d have to do you know what I mean, that’s it so like, we were raising more money, so instead of say just being content with just going to one Asda’s and nicking a plasma TV we’d then drive around and say go to a couple of different Asda’s or Tesco extra’s or whatever it may be, do you know what i mean it, you know that it’s that easy, it’s easy to become greedy, do you know what I mean,

Jm: and erm, what happened to your place when you lost it here,

P: erm, because he was violent, basically I just had like lots of warnings, constantly you know, this can’t go on, this can’t go on,

Jm: from, who was giving you the warnings?

P: erm, from the council, and in the end yeah, because he had a lot of enemies you know, so people put my windows through, and things like that and it was just, it was dreadful to be honest with you, so we just walked away, we just left we did, we went to stay with my mum for a week, for a little bit longer, he went into a hostel, but I was still staying with my mum,

Jm: did you and your partner get a new place around this time at all?

P: yeah what happened, was as our use was increasing, like I said, I lost my flat and everything, and he went to a hostel for a month or two I was like staying with my mum and then he got a new flat then, so at its highest use, it’s stable use he, it was his flat, do you know what I mean,

Jm: so did your parents like your partner then?

P: no, they hated him

Jm: and did anything else change from this to that, I mean the crowd you were hanging around with?

P: it became a lot more unsavoury yeah, definitely lost a lot more contact with straight people, you know normal living people because, and especially from our violence, you know, towards each other, our relationship was so erratic that people, people don’t want you around, do you know what I mean, it’s , I don’t want that around in my lifestyle do you know what I mean, with people who live normal lives, and you know, especially with the drug scene then, you get to know people who are, all of a sudden before you know it boomph you’re just surrounded, by that environment

Jm: and do you know why it is that your use of heroin stabalised at that level at that three or four bag mark?

P: erm, I dunno, I just never felt the need, yeah I was conscious of, conscious of not going too deep into that world, I think maybe, I’m quite strong mined you know what I mean, and you know, although I have got into drugs and the worst kind probably do you know what I mean,

Jm: so now, what brought on, what got you on the script? Sorry, did you get arrested throughout this time at all?

P: yeah, quite few times, for like shoplifting, erm possession of drugs and er it was the possession of drugs that I was arrested for that got me onto the DRR,

Jm: and did you just get slaps on the wrist or did you get any community or prison sentences in this time

P: I got done for violence, once , which wasn’t a slap on the wrist, I could have, it was like a crown court matter, I pleaded guilty, I was looking at like three to four years imprisonment, and then my barrister, my dad like paid quite a lot of money and got like a really good barrister, and luckily I got out for, got off for it was eighteen months probation, about two hundred hours community service, alcohol counselling, erm anger management, a fine, it was like everything they could possibly give me rather than a custodial sentence, that was for the violence, and then when they caught me then with possession, I think it was just like one bag of heroin, and it was a quarter of crack cocaine, that I had on me, then, when I went back to court then, then my solicitor suggested a DRR, I asked or a DRR, I’d had enough of that one, I wanted to get clean

Jm: do you mind telling me about the violent incident,

P: yeah

Jm: what happened with that?

P: ah, it was awful, I’d got into an argument with some girl, she’d attacked me, and I was just completely out of my mind, high and whatever , off crack, not sure if I’d had any heroin, but I just bettered her with a stick, it was really bad it was, you know, for the offense I think should have gone to prison, you know I was very remorseful, still now it effects me, like that I am actually capable of

Jm: probably unlucky that you hadn’t had some heroin at that point, probably wouldn’t have done it

P: that’s probably why I acted so erratic you know,

Jm: were you an angry person before the crack or?

P: I think that because, I’ve had a lot of time to reflect on this, I think that because of the violence in my relationship, I was never a violent person, I wasn’t brought up with violence, I just think because I’ve taken so many beatings off him, that when somebody attacked me, I think that I just lost it you know,

Jm: and so when your solicitor suggested the DRR, what did you think of it?

P: I was really grateful, I was really grateful

Jm: were you, sick of the lifestyle at that point?

P: sick of it

Jm: were you still with your partner then?

P: still with him then, yeah. But basically do you know what it is, it’s strange even though I was on the DRR and he wasn’t, he still got clean with me and it was just, I think we’d come to the point, where we both, we just had enough I think, it was killing us, it was killing our relationship, obviously we’d spoke about it a lot yeah, what our lives have become, we’d end up selling our possessions and things it was just,

Jm: were the raises getting less successful at this point as well?

P: I just couldn’t be bothered any more, I just couldn’t be bothered to go out raising, you know what I mean, I was exhausted with the lifestyle, I was exhausted with getting up every day and doing that, do you know what I mean, the reputation that comes with it, you know, people think that your an untrustworthy person, and just it’s not good,

Jm: ah huh, and describe to me the when you got your methadone yeah, I mean how long until you got your first bag? Did it hold you the first dose they put you on the methadone?

P: cos I was on a high dosage, of valium as well, so it was like I’d take the valium through the day, and then obviously, about four o clock I would have the methadone, cos I really honestly found that it sedated me, it helped me a lot you know, and obviously and you still have the psychological urge because that’s your routine of doing that so psychologically you feel lost you feel the total change of lifestyle, for you and it’s and it doesn’t just work straight away, you know what i mean so it’s not like oh right have a sip of this and that means it’s gone, it doesn’t work like that at all but they’re not half the time, and you know we still got the odd little thing, but I got drug tested three times a week, so I had to stay clean or i was gonna go to prison, it worked as a deterrent for me so, it wasn’t just the deterrent of going to prison it was also the desire to change as well that was so immense for me that I knew I was gonna get clean and I just knew it had come to that point I just knew

37:56

Jm: and what happened to you and our partners lifestyle then, did he have a place than when you got on the script?

P: he did yeah

Jm: and so you’d wake up in the morning and what would you do then?

P: he would still, he was still even though his, like I was cleaner than him, I would beg him you know, he would still go out and he’d still raise things

Jm: would you go out with him ten?

P: no, no. My lifestyle changed at that’s got a lot to do with why we split up, because even though I say yeah he got clean with me I don’t believe really he did, I think he was just sneaky about it, you know what I mean, he’d still go out and raise and he’d just go out with the boys, but at this point then when I was on methadone you know I started speaking to my mum a lot more you know so in the days I’d go down and sit with my mum, you know my sister or whatever, and trying to start to, you know, build things, you know I was sometimes there I wouldn’t see him for days, you know

Jm: when he was away would you stay at your mums, stay at his?

P: I’d stay at the flat yeah

Jm: what did you do with your time? Watching tv?

P: watch the tv, do crosswords, write some poetry, painting art canvasses, a bit of decorating, just keeping myself busy like,

Jm: were you satisfied with life then?

P: that still wasn’t the life I wanted, I wasn’t happy with the way lifestyle was, I wasn’t happy with my relationship, I wasn’t happy with, I still wasn’t happy,

Jm: how long do you think that stage of your life lasted for?

P: I dunno about nine months,

Jm: and then after that nine months?

P: after that nine months, oh I dunno, used again

Jm: yeah

P: then, yeah

Jm: can you remember how it happened that you used again?

P:yeah yeah yeah, I was arguing with my partner, I was saying what you been up to, what you been doing, soI went out with him, went to a crack house, smoked crack and then yeah, smoked brown, you’re going to ask how I feel about myself then, I was fucking disgusted, disgusted, I wanted to go home, I just wanna go home,

Jm: were you still on the script then?

P: still on meth, I was on methadone for twelve months, after that they decreased it,

Jm: after that time when you went to the crack house, did you get back into the rat race for a while then?

P: no I didn’t I was disgusted, I was disgusted,

Jm: so did you just go back to where your lifestyle had been?

P: yeah, yeah

Jm: so did they reduce you all the way to zero?

P: yeah, very quickly as well,

Jm: how did that go? Was it painful?

P: it was but, it was, quite physically, but babe I was just so mentally strong, wanted it so much that, even though like it’s like you’re going through a cluck you’ve, do you know what it’s gonna sound stupid but it wasn’t hard, it wasn’t hard, it wasn’t because well, they say you swap you know, I did really, I was taking a lot of valium, diazies you know, and so maybe I didn’t find getting off methadone as hard as getting completely clean, because as you’re probably aware now studying drug addictions and things a lot of people do substitute one thing for another, but I found valium a lot better for me than the methadone or heroin or crack and so I was, I didn’t feel ashamed you know, that I was using diazepam like to get me through the day, or to help me feel, you know, relaxed, you know, and obviously on the DRR as well, I had a lot of acupuncture and things as well,

Jm: was there other therapies with it as well?

P: there were things available and I found that helped a lot as well you know, like on the bus journey on the way home like, I just felt so relaxed, I’m lucky that I’m quite intelligent, you know I have got other interests in life, I think I just got caught into it you know, everybody’s different,

Jm: and so after, was it the meth got stopped here, and then after, at what point did you and your ex partner split up?

P: we split up about July, August, September, 2010

Jm: so it’s coming up to two years now, so did your lifestyle change then? Did you move back to your mums then when you split up with him?

P: since then I’ve been back and forth, friends, hostels, back and forth for the last two years,

Jm: and so how have you been getting on with your mum since then?

P:it’s still erratic, sporadically getting along with her, now and then we’ll have an argument, I dunno, I just, like I left home when I was like fifteen, so it’s always been back and forth,

Jm: where did you go when you were fifteen?

P: I moved in with a friend I did,

Jm: was that because you were falling out with your mum then?

P: yeah

Jm: and erm, do you have sisters and brothers?

P: two sisters?

Jm: how have you got on with them throughout this whole thing?

P: erm, my younger sister, she’s only twelve, so you know, she’s just a little’un, my other sister, she’s twenty three, and I get on with her yeah, I get on with her, I never used to once I was going through all this, she just thinks I was a fucking waste of space, but as she’s got older, we speak more and there’s a lot more understanding, now, you know, because, she’s older, she’s wiser and she’s aware that you know,

Jm: and when you said that you’re drinking quite a bit at the moment,

P: I drink every day now

Jm: were you drinking through when you said you were on the methadone script?

P: yeah, but not much,

Jm: and when was it your drinking picked up do you reckon?

P: probably when I think I split up with my ex, yeah

Jm: and can I ask what you’re doing for money at the moment?

P: I’m on benefits?

Jm: and that more or less manages to tie you through?

P: yeah, well, yeah, it has to, doesn’t it

Jm: how much do you get on the benefits?

P: not a lot, 74 pounds a week,

Jm: so since you been on the script it’s definitely been A, nought to fifty?

P: yeah

Jm: and have you got a group of friends here? Or a bit of a lone ranger?

P: ah, you know, I just bounce from person to person, I think because I’m bubbly and outgoing and I want to speak to everybody you know, you know what I mean,

Jm: do you have a partner at the moment?

P: no

Jm: and deliberately steering clear of that?

P: yes

Jm: and so said at the moment you’ve got really good aims, get a place etc, do you have a plan for that?

P: yeah I have actually, I’m going to see a women’s aid worker later, like even though it’s been a while since, I had the violent relationship, I was speaking to someone yesterday who does voluntary work for womens aid, and obviously because if the situation I’m in now where I’m homeless, and things and I still get quite upset about like events and things I’m going through, she’s like Sonia, they can definitely help you, I spoke to a woman on the phone now and I gotta go to, see her this afternoon, they think they can help me with some kind of accommodation, even if it’s just a hostel or something,

Jm: an all female hostel or something?

P: yeah, so then I’ll, and she was saying that, there’s lots of support networks, and everything that you need really, you know what I mean so hopefully, we’ll see her this afternoon, they can sort something out, then at least I’m on the ladder, to get my own accommodation, like and they will obviously help me with alcohol and counselling about deep rooted things, I think the violence has affected me, a hell of a lot, my confidence, my inability to build sort of relationships with men you, I mean I can be friend with men, but not, you know, it isn’t normal how, it isn’t normal like,

Jm: so one other thing I forgot to ask was, did you work before 2005?

P: yeah

Jm: what did you do?

P:well I’ve always done little bar jobs and the sales I used to do sales yeah, I’ve worked in between all this as well, funny enough like, strange enough

Jm: and what jobs was it mainly through here?

P: I’ve always done sales jobs, call centre, that sort of thing,