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RES-866-RS-SpedFocusGroup1.docx

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Jodee: [00:00:01] This is a focus group with the secondary special education teachers. So anybody feel free to chime in and we just talked about the secondary transition plan and theoretical principles of Situation and support. So the first question is How does political correctness influence transition process. So think about some of the terminology that's changed. For example we don't refer to kids with cognitive impairment as being mentally retarded. So how does that PC influence the transition process. And anybody can feel free to speak up if they would like.

TS5: [00:00:49] Well I guess I'll start because I'm probably the least politically correct person around. I think you make an example of the fact of you know you know with. What you can and cannot say Well not everybody is up to date on the current lingo and everybody apparently might may be in denial about where their child is at cognitively when using certain terms they may expect more from their or their child than they're actually capable because we're not using terms of people understand or that people use. Obviously I'm not talking about in a hurtful way but you know I mean I have a student now that he's I guess they went out of their way to label him. You know he has a label of autism. But I keep telling these people on my autism is not his problem his cognitive is his problem as long as that IEP keeps talking about autism then that seems to be the direction of where they want to go with the services. And and I keep saying that autism is not the problem. So that's just my 2 cents on.

Jodee: [00:02:12] How has that worked so far just to kind of pair off your response on that TS5 how has it like you're able to see that it's not the Autism that's a problem. How do you stear that to the correct path and have deal with this and what the kid is capable of doing regarding transition.

Sped5: [00:02:34] Well I was fortunate in this area where I think it was an issue of the mom was in denial that it wasn't all the other teachers were like no. This is what this is what he needs. You know because of the IEP I'm trying to get him. You know support all the time and it's just a matter of when they look at the IEP and says why is it that it will be this and this and I'm like I didn't write the IEPP I didn't put down autism. I'll just tell you what I see now what I have and that's what it is. And so it wasn't until at an an IEP meeting that the other teachers who see them every day too are like no this is where he's at. He needs the support he needs this because of x y z. So you know that's just for example.

Jodee: [00:03:25] Okay TS7 I'm going to kind of put you on the spot on for a minute when we talked a couple of days ago about that one student what were some of the things that you might have encountered in working with the parents on regarding transitioning him. And you know just to give a bit with a bit of background history it was a young man diagnosed with Down's syndrome and his parents wanted him in AP classes. And so what were some of the ways that you kind of got around that being politically correct.

Sped7: [00:04:06] We had to be totally politically correct with the parents because as as Sped5 was just talking about there was a complete denial with the parents. I think on the parent part in terms of what the young man was was capable of. And it was a great hindrance I think in what we should have been doing with this young man in terms of getting him to a reachable goal.

Jodee: [00:04:47] Anybody else have anything that they'd like to share with political correctness in transition.

Sped3: [00:04:56] You know piggybacking on what Sped5 said. I think just the unrealistic expectation is that a lot of parents have I mean not to bring it up too much but you know with the Internet everybody seems to be an expert on autism now. They they just you know they think that they know what's best and they haven't seen him in that educational environment. So it's trying to reach those goals and trying to. I don't know just get realistic expectations I guess.

Sped1: [00:05:34] I was just going to place it from the organizations who provide transition services for students who like post-secondary training sometimes they might be a little bit vague because they're trying to be politically correct and who might be accepted into that program and that could cause some extra difficulty as far as getting the student into the program. But that's just a small thing compared to the parent denial.

Jodee: [00:06:01] Right. Sped6 Do you have anything to add to that.

Sped6: [00:06:05] Everybody is talking about the parent aspect I like to talk a little bit about the regular education teachers aspect. A lot of times they're not up to date on a lot of the verbiage that is used in special education just because I mean when you think about it all in all regular education teachers have to take one special education class throughout their entire background in order to get their certificate together. So you know keeping up on it isn't as high of a priority as it should be. And sometimes they say things in meetings as well and aren't necessarily political politically correct.

Jodee: [00:06:40] Right. So can you guys tell me about some of your challenges as a special educator and in working with transition specialists other key service providers. With regard to this secondary transition plan.

Sped2: [00:06:59] We all know it's our job to get that transition plan filled out. I suppose attitudes in meetings where you kind of feel like you bulldozed over the top of. Well you know it was like from both sides of it sometimes you know since you're dealing with the general ed teachers or even another special ed teacher when your a transition specialist is and forgive me for using you know but it's like it's like a you know super teacher. I'm super teacher I'm Captain Awesome you know. And the teachers aren't being realistic about what they you know they want to you know say oh I did this for this kid and I did this and I raised the expectations and I'm like That's great.

Sped5: [00:08:16] But you know it's it's not the thing you know we've mentioned before about the idea of you know if you're talking about a low cognitive and like I want to be a doctor and you translate that too. OK so you're interested in it. And then you explore all those options. But you can have three people saying OK medical field must find something and then one person say Oh well John Hopkins goes a really good program. You know I mean unless everybody is on the same page it just sends mixed messages. I think it just clouds up the ultimate goal which is to have a successful post-secondary transition.

Sped2: [00:08:56] I am sure that all of you have felt as am I and when you leave the meeting you're like OK well that was that was basically a bust. We got absolutely nothing accomplished because you had people going in different direction.

Jodee: [00:09:09] In regard to the secondary transition. Can anybody speak to that.

Sped1: [00:09:15] We would often have pre-meeting. We didn't have a transition specialist per se but our school psychologist ended up sort of filling that spot. So a lot of times the special education team would sit together and pre-meet before we had that IEP meetings that at least we can all be on the same page and any kind of incongruence at that point could be hashed out before we stepped in. But that's tough when you have meetings all the time anyway. So sometimes it was during our lunch time schedule or maybe the week before the meeting we kind of go over the upcoming meetings and any major pointers or or issue areas that we we see but it's not always a perfect world but it helped.

Sped5: [00:09:58] I've started to step in here but it's like I don't know what your current position is or what you are doing now. So but like that in theory you'd like I agree with you. That should take place. But what I found is that since everybody is so sue scared sue crazy that what they will do is then find a way to say that it will pre-determined. My child has label or service or minutes or whatever prior to the IEP meeting. So I didn't even stand a chance because you guys got together ahead of time and then due process all the e-mails and all that stuff. So like yes I agree with you. I totally agree. That needs to be you need to have consistency. That's just one of those pitfalls that has come up as of late.

Sped1: [00:10:52] Yeah ok. I'm about five years removed we're almost six now removed from the special education. But I was at the high school level before and we that's what we would work through. We wouldn't really predraft the IEP we'd have that transition plan started and a all of times parents are notified. But yeah we didn't we would draft it there but I could see how that would have been all. All it takes is one parent to to start that rolling and then it.

Sped5: [00:11:23] So yah I'd say in the last couple years so because again I don't want to deter that because I think what you're doing. I think that's a great application of what we're trying to get at and that's how we'll get there. Taking another tool away from a competent team.

Sped6: [00:11:41] I know you know back in in in my day and maybe things are a little bit more removed you know when you talk to the students I would always run this stuff by the parents and say hey this is what their interests are. You know what did you think or what have you. You know just to kind of get their input and then kind of come up with a tentative plan on how to get that student to work towards their goal.

Sped1: [00:12:07] And a lot of times the pre-meeting meetings weren't necessarily what are we going to have them do. It was more of are we on the same page with where we're think what we're thinking about the students skills are and what their weaknesses are per se that makes any sense and what the parents been expressing as an interest because sometimes one parent will say something to you and then something completely different to another sped teacher about their student's interest. So it's nice to be on at least that same page. Yeah I agree. But I can see that now it's definitely an issue.

Sped3: [00:12:40] And I tell you what Jodee you're absolutely right. I have I have kids that want to be NBA basketball stars and I end up contacting parents and saying look I'm going to try and steer them in a different direction and parents are like please do because we can't get it out of their mind that they want to be an NBA basketball star and I'm like have you tried welding....

Sped3: [00:13:01] Well buddy, you do realize you're only 5'2 right (hahaha). Exactly. It's like you know I don't want to be the heartbreaker for them but you know and I steer it towards you know what if something happens and you can't do it. We need to have a backup plan so this is what were your backup plan.

Jodee: [00:13:24] Sped6 or Sped7 Do you have anything to add to that.

Sped6: [00:13:27] I think there's also that realistic. You know I mean you guys were talking about being a basketball player and I kind of thing but I think you need to bring that to the table. I mean you know I had a student that was in a wheelchair and wanted to be a police officer obviously he's not going to chase criminals down the road in a wheelchair. I mean it's just not realistic. You know and I think that the students also need to realize that and I mean it's it's great in theory to say let's do what the students interested in. It's great in theory and everybody of course I mean hey I want to be a supermodel right. Obviously didn't happen quite yet but it's the same thing. We really aren't. Yeah. That is not the model I wanted to be. But but anyway like we said there also needs to come a point where you need to discuss with the student some different skills of being able to be realistic with their disability and understand what their limitations are as much as you know we don't want to limit kids but we also have to be realistic. Obviously you know I mean I myself have a hearing loss. I'm not going to go into a career where I deal primarily with hearing things right. I mean that's just not realistic. It's not something that's going to work and I think sometimes as a team we're so you know going back to the politically correct question and you know we're so...Oh we have to let the kids follow their dreams and their aspirations but there also comes a time where you have to be realistic with them as well.

Sped2: [00:15:00] They have to have a hard truth...tell them the hard truth

Sped7: [00:15:08] I totally agree with what Sped6 just said and have had those experiences where parents aren't realistic with their expectations for their kids moreso than what the kids themselves want to do.

Sped4: [00:15:11] Yeah I think sometimes it's really it's it's difficult you know to be realistic and tell those kids that hard truth. I like the angle of getting from the kid what are some goals you would like to achieve and then running that by the parent. I think that that's that's important piece because when they come into that transition meeting then everybody's not blindsided. So to speak.

Jodee: [00:15:39] OK so when you get to the secondary level. You have a student who refuses to partake in his or her transition process according to this secondary transition plan. For example you have to interview them for their goals. What would you do.

Sped5: [00:16:00] Well the first thing is like how committed are they to that goal. I mean that would be my first thing. It's like you know it's you know being a coach it's like go coach I want to go Division 1. I don't see you in the weight room like I mean you know so I would. And then my second part of that is how accurate is that transition. And transition services is you know if you're asking the kid to do pushups because they want to be in the Marines but they don't like pushups and they don't like guns than I would question where does that transition. Who wrote this. You know what I mean. So that's that's just my two cents.

Sped1: [00:16:35] You know I have had students not take part in there in their transition. And it's it's kind of like those things that he had that conversation with him and say listen this is your future here not mine. I want to help you try to achieve that.

Jodee: [00:16:51] Anybody else have any any ideas on how they can get students to partake in their transition.

Sped3: [00:16:58] I think a lot of the kids what they end up doing is they try and look at where they want to end up in their final ultimate career in a lot of times there are steps to actually get there. And if they have that ultimate goal and they think it's too far away for instance doing something with the FBI or doing something on the federal level a lot of times people will start off and they want to become a police officer or they want to do something like that and you start them off and kind of that smaller step and say all right this is what you need to do in order to achieve the first step to your bigger success.

Sped6: [00:17:32] I think something that might help are like student lead IEP. And having them actually lead their own transition plans. I mean you know a lot of times we as the team as a special education teacher facilitate the IEP and having them facilitated and actually take charge of their own plan and we'll give them a little bit more motivation and drive to follow through with the goals that they've actually created.

Sped1: [00:17:59] So at the previous school that I taught at. They did just that. So we started about a month beforehand and we had the students write down some of their goals and really helped them work through some of those hard truths and deciphering parent interests and the student interests and kind of where their skill levels were and by the time start freshman year and by the time they are ready for that meeting they held the meeting they knew all their teachers names they introduced them to their to their parents. And it's always been I don't know we were really proud of it at that school that I taught that before but that is something that we did always time.

Sped4: [00:18:39] Yeah yeah I agree I think it's it's like students really like to do that. You know it's like they're in charge of their own plan. I'm going to tell you what it is I want to do. So I agree I think that that's definitely a beneficial aspect to address and bring up.

Jodee: [00:19:01] Does anyone else have any final thoughts to share on that one.

Sped6: [00:19:05] I think even. I mean depending on their cognitive level as well. I think that putting them in some kind of situational situations where they are doing different jobs for example. You know I used to have my kids go and do on the job training out in the community from work places where we did grocery stores we did old age homes folding towels we did Costco Sam's Club that kind of stuff. So I mean giving them the opportunity to explore different career that they may or may not have bought. You know it may spark an interest which would give them more of an opportunity to want to create their own transition plans to follow through on their goals.

Jodee: [00:19:49] Yeah and I know Sped7 you actually fielded a lot of that in terms of you know like with one with the Flying Tigers for example. Can you talk about maybe some of the things that you did and your students get from secondary to higher end learning those basic skills.

Sped7: [00:20:19] The main thing was just letting them do hands on whenever there was opportunity for example, there was bacon breakfast burrito's and getting them to actually see what it was like to cook a scrambled egg trying to to make change when somebody came up to buy the burrito to do the dishes afterward. Just to give them like the others who were saying the real life experience and then maybe you know one of the great things that one of the school district does in Tucson is their high schools are completely geared now with academies to where. Now if you have a parent that wants to put a child in a totally inclusive and they are going they're going to get the experience in different areas.So it's an it's it's wonderful to have an experience different thing.

Jodee: [00:21:34] So I want you guys to provide an answer to this scenario. If you have a student who is struggling with his or her teacher how would you handle it.

Sped5: [00:21:53] Teacher or sped teacher.

Jodee: [00:21:58] It doesn't matter.

[00:21:58] Have a student that just says that.

Sped1: [00:22:04] I probably try to find some additional information. Why. What's been going on what what's been the issue. And I think I'd try to have the student go and talk to that particular teacher too. Hopefully the first time maybe by themselves and then the second time with me if it needed to be a second time.

Sped2: [00:22:27] Kind of piggybacking on what Sped1 said. I actually would do the same thing at first and I would say all right what's going on. And then what I would do is I would kind of spin it a little bit and I would actually go to the teacher and say this is so and so has she has told me this I am going to have them come up and talk to you. And if there was a teacher that could be argumentative or combative. What I would end up doing is say you know what you need to pull your punches on them. They're really on the edge. They're coming up on my request.

Jodee: [00:23:01] anybody else can have anything they want to to that.

Sped5: [00:23:12] You know I think I would. The only way. I mean I don't know if I'm going to respectfully disagree with Sped1 that I probably and I'm not disagreeing at all. But the idea of self advocacy and I mean if you really feel that way and if you really think that the teacher hates you or this and that then it's upon you to remedy that situation. You know I guess when I first heard the question my first thing would be like I don't I don't care. Like your boss you're not going to like this how you deal with it is to what the big picture is. And so you know I guess you know the self-advocacy skills are where I would classify that as important.

Jodee: [00:23:58] Anybody else have anything in that scenario.

Sped6: [00:24:02] I was just going to say the same thing he said you know I think that we compare it to a real world situation where you know you're at work and you don't you're not getting along with the boss. How would you handle that situation that way you kind of turn it into a lesson and compare it to something that they're going to utilize after they leave us. And that way you know you're teaching on those skills rather than just telling them what to do. Right.

[00:24:27] Sped7 Can you hear us.

Sped7: [00:24:29] I can I can totally hear you OK.

Jodee: [00:24:33] Anything you want to add before we before we go on your face is frozen.

Sped7: [00:24:39] You know I totally agree. I was in a uique situation too where if I saw something like that start to happen or if or if the student came to me right then and there I was able to remove the student from the situation and we we started that dialogue right away. If I if we had to then go back and talk to that teacher. We did it immediately but communication was the key and the self advocacy.

Jodee: [00:25:18] So what do you guys feel and are some of the collaboration challenges as a secondary special education teacher working with parents on these transition goals.

Sped6: [00:25:46] I think it's being unrealistic. I mean with some of the some of the you know it's hard to tell a parent and I know it's at the secondary level. By then you think the shock would wear off that their kids are not going to be a doctor or a lawyer in some cases you know but it's you know I used to sit with parents and speak to them. Now have you thought about what Johnny is going to do after high school and to be honest with them. A lot of them don't think long term like that they break it down. So you know have serious conversation and sometimes having that chat and having that realistic talk I think is the toughest part of the transition meetings not very green.

Jodee: [00:26:48] Any have anything they want to add to that.

Sped5: [00:26:51] Yeah. The other part of that is actually if you flip that. And say. For example when the parents don't agree with what the kid wants to do instead of the other way around. You know like I said plenty of times where kids wanted to join the military and their parents don't want them to. You know you're trying to get kids for you know you know OK you need physical conditioning classes you need this or whatever it is. Or ROTC you know find a school that has that. But then the parents are like you know no I don't want my kid joining the military. And you know I could deal with that.

Jodee: [00:27:28] Now have any of you guys ever had a scenario where a kid has turned 18 in the middle of their senior year and they have banned their parents. From attending meetings.

Sped5: [00:27:44] Banned? No.

Jodee: [00:28:10] And you know flip side of the coin because speaking to what Sped5 said and I think that that's. That's that's a really fine line. So how do you deal with a situation where if the kid wants to join the military the parents don't want them to.

Sped5: [00:28:37] it's an example that popped out were always usually dealing with the flip side of it and being you know like what about when the kid wants to do something and the parents think the kid can do more than they're capable. We rarely come to the thing where it's the parents don't want them. You know sometimes it's even the simplest like I want to be a mechanic and the parents are like you're not going to do anything when you know you're going to go to college and you're going to do this and blah blah blah blah.

Jodee: [00:29:11] As a secondary special ed teacher working in special education what is the most challenging In the way of offering support and strategies working with students who are transitioning from secondary going into higher education. What do you think is the most challenging about trying to figure out how to get them To that point.

Sped6: [00:29:46] I think that's the most challenging in finding that right fit. I mean on top of that we've talked about being realistic a million times now but finding the right fit for that student. You want them to if there is someone that is capable of going into higher education first of all finding a university or finding a community college or a program right. That meet their needs is also challenging. I mean as special education teachers at the secondary level we know a lot of programs but there's so much out there that is still developing. And you never know where they're going to actually fit it. You can do your best to try to get them there. You don't know if they're going to make it or not or if it's going to be the appropriate placement for them because once you set them free you set them free.

Sped2: [00:30:35] We're still starting in asking 16 year olds hey what do you want to do for the rest of your life. And then holding them to that you know it is it's a journey.

Jodee: [00:31:14] So once the interview portion of the secondary transition plan is written what point do you feel that you have part of that collaboration process with transition coordinator's colleges and other key service providers. When did that collaboration piece begin.

Sped1: [00:31:40] I feel like immediately or soon as you have the next instance of contact with a parent or with another special education teacher that works with that child the school psychologist or one of the resources that you're checking to see if that might be available for that student after after high school.

Jodee: [00:31:57] And do you guys feel it's it's primarily the sped case manager that's reaching out to those other those other people and I don't know Sped5 maybe you can see this in both sides of the coin in that you and a transition coordinator you know at what point were you brought into that.

Sped5: [00:32:21] Well in my experience this is just my experience is that I mean you know is much is as little as the gen ed knows about sped. Sped for the most part just knows about as much on transition. Resources testing all that kind of stuff open so they just really take your lead on it. They're just you are the transition coordinator so tell me what this where if you know you read the report tell me where it goes I'll fill it in the IEP in that part of the meeting you do the talking and you build this and they are there. They're rather indifferent in my experience about what goes in that report.

Jodee: [00:33:10] do any of you guys have anything else to add to that.

Sped7: [00:33:14] I just want going back on our discussion before. I just think it's still like a puzzle in which you find one piece of the puzzle you need to find the rest of the puzzle pieces and put them all together.Collaboration an coordination is so key.

Sped4: [00:33:34] And so I think it's it's it's one of those things when you fill out that transition plan not that you're not collaborating with with these people and all along. But I think once that secondary transition plan goes into effect. That's when you try to work that you know get the other people involved because quite frankly I mean I don't know that you guys but there's been times when I'm like I don't have a clue. I don't even know where to begin. You get this kid to where he needs to be. You know I feel that that transition coordinator or you know I'm. Someone that maybe has more of an understanding of the transition piece should really be brought into it. If not before you know in a perfect world. You know more and more districts are hiring transition specialists. And so they expect them to start with the kids that are little and work up that you know. And so. Whereas a lot of times you think nope that transition teams only should be instituted in high school when in reality we're doing it all if That makes sense.

Sped4: [00:34:40] And does anybody have anything else that they wanted to add to that. So as a secondary sped teacher what are some of the difficulties with the transition process.

Sped1: [00:34:59] I think that kind of goes back to what we were already discussing which is staying on top of the resources that are available. So I know that I had a few things that I I did well to keep up on but it was only a few a handful of things and that's where that collaboration with the other sped teachers came into play because I had to go out and reach out to them I would have been overwhelmed trying to keep up with every option available. And then my student load and everything else. So that was was other than finding the best suit for that student. That was my difficult process. After that you know after finding the best fit for the student was OK. How do I make that happen. And you know we didn't transition specialists

Jodee: [00:35:51] Sped4, you actually have a transition specialist that you work with.

Sped4: [00:36:22] Yeah and she does a really good job.

Jodee: [00:36:25] So once you write that secondary transition plan with the student. When does a collaboration piece come into effect.

Sped4: [00:36:34] Well she's involved even in the planning of that. She interviews them I interview them. She starts kind of working on it immediately if there's stuff she needs to information gather and then when we're at the meeting she attends and provides the materials and input and stuff like that. Honestly there are times when like freshmen she's not always able to be at every single meeting. And so sometimes she'll just give me the information and relay. But for all of our juniors and seniors she tries to time all of their meetings or she contacts the parents ahead of time.

Jodee: [00:37:28] What are the key challenges between a vocational transition versus a higher education transition and I know Sped4 you are mostly with higher ed transitions and you dealt mostly with higher ed transitions. I think Sped3 and Sped6 are probably equal as well as Sped2, Sped5 and Sped7. So anybody want to speak to you maybe with some of those challenges are.

Sped5: [00:37:58] Well I wanted to add to what Sped4 was saying. it should be now I don't know about your school so you can correct me if I'm wrong but it has always been the transition plan is not a one shot one time deal it's really freshman you're doing Step 1 which is take some AZCIS testing. You know some. Aptitude stuff you know I'm not taking freshmen on my tours of Estrella Mountain community college or ASU. then step two you know is then whatever it is so that a situation where if you don't have that coordinator who can be on top of every meeting whatever it should be simple enough that case managers should be able to handle and say Oh hey remember last year we focused on we have to take those test and we put up those results. Now we went to part two of the process and did such.. It's not like up here it is you know have at it kind of thing. I mean your IEP goal may or may not necessarily be for the student to get their driver's license.

Sped4: [00:39:15] a lot of times it's career exploration because they have no idea sometimes what they want to do. OK. That's OK. Let's pick like three different things that you're interested in right now and for a lot of the freshmen that's how it starts out.

Sped5: [00:39:33] It's a classic transition goal.

Jodee: [00:39:38] You know as the kid progresses you update their goals and their secondary transition goals as they change from one year to the next.

Sped1: [00:39:51] Every year the new IEP new year new new goals.

Sped4: [00:40:01] And you know it means the entire plan which effects oh 90 percent of that IEP or at least get 80 percent of that every year. I have a kid now who's a senior and I have changed. Like literally he has. Gone from it was culinary, then it was the was the Navy then it was I forgot oh sports med. Physical therapy just like every year it was something entirely different. I'm like dude you are killing me. Why do you understand the paperwork you make. You made me do.

Jodee: [00:40:38] Well is a vocational transition plan more difficult than a secondary transition plan.

Sped1: [00:40:47] For me personally a vocational plan is more dificult. That's because I am less aware of some of those things. I've worked with more resource students. So that's the stuff that would be hard for me to keep up on top of what programs are available after high school and how they changed and how the requirements changed since the last time I looked at those programs that were available.

Jodee: [00:41:07] Does anybody have anything to add to that.

Sped4: [00:41:35] I think knowing your resources too and what things are available. The longer I've done it and moving around from different schools and in different locations within the metropolitan area more you become more you yourself become more aware of what research sources are available.

Jodee: [00:41:59] So that's something that you have to do your homework on. Or can the transition coordinator help out with that piece of it.

Sped4: [00:42:06] Well that's that's a huge part is that. But if you don't have that relationship or you don't have a transition coordinator that's doing that for you then you've got to do it yourself and before coming here I really didn't have that person right. And so. You know and then. Honestly I am pretty spoiled I think on the east side with having EVIT. There's a lot of those resources available.

Jodee: [00:42:37] And couple more questions you guys. And what went might be some suggestions to increase the collaborative process between secondary sped teachers transition specialists and other key service providers.

Sped2: [00:43:07] It's communication. It's education. It's you've got somebody teachers who really don't even understand Special Education. It's another program another thing. if you would put it in terms of like LRE and you sit there and said if we said the same thing about that with sped kids that we do about minority kids People will be like I would never say that but you're saying that to kids all the time. You say you or your kid you know or I've got those kids over there or you know I mean stuff like that. I think it's just an overall. Misunderstanding of what it is that special education does. Because again. The things that they say that teachers or people say about special education kids would never dream of saying that about any other group of kids but we do it without thought.

Jodee: [00:44:11] So opening up those lines of communication is really important.

Sped5: [00:44:18] It's just like sped6 said, You go get your teacher degree and you get one sped class. No historical background no understanding of it. Nothing like that. It's got to be way. It's got to be in depth. I mean it's the same thing about general ed. The two things that affect more people than any then more people than anything else is government and economics and we spend a semester of each and that's it. And you wonder why people are so uneducated

Jodee: [00:45:02] Anybody else have anything to add to that. As a secondary special education teacher do you feel Adequately prepared to transition students with disabilities to higher education.

Sped4: [00:45:22] Yeah I was just going to say we always need to keep getting better. It's not a good idea to just be complacent.

Jodee: [00:45:39] Well is it one of those things you know you have your earn Continuing education. Like are you increasing your knowledge on Ways you transition as a student.

Sped4: [00:45:55] Are you asking for like specific training classes or are you just asking like Just generally working individually.

[00:46:05] I mean you know in your experience is because there's been times when I've transitioned students and I'm like. You know I don't I kind of feel like when I'm going but I don't really know if I know what I'm doing.

Sped1: [00:46:19] Yeah. I think the state puts on some sort of transition fair something like that every year. Another example of like that continued professional development.

Sped4: [00:46:43] Because I got to go to that transition fair and that was great and that really helped me so much but not every single teacher get to go. So either the who were like that's kind of mandatory and everybody does it.... Or or not you know a lot of times it's space time it's money and people aren't going to pay for it on their own. Districts aren't going to pay for that.

[00:47:24] OK so last question for you guys what are some of the supports that you need from your district in order to effectively collaborate with one another when it pertains to providing transition services.

Sped3: [00:47:45] Time.

Sped1: [00:47:49] Budget from professional development.

Sped4: [00:47:50] Money.

Jodee: [00:47:53] Money with what they pay you in terms of....

Sped1: [00:47:57] Resources professional development opportunities for students to go out and have those transition type experiences that Sped6 talked about at the beginning.

[00:48:05] So Sped3 what about in your neck of the woods. What do you think that that you would need that your district should provide. For you guys.

Sped3: [00:48:16] Oh definitely the resources are big. It seems like most of the special teachers that I work with we end up having to go out and try and find all of these resources for ourselves where as it would be nice if the district would say hey here's a list of resources for you. Why don't you well even pay for it if you want to go to it. Or you no it's just it comes down to that. A lot of that since were so specialized. People don't know what we do right there. They're happy If they don't hear from us. Yes. Basically what happens is we're left to fend for ourselves.

Jodee: [00:48:59] Who yelled out time?

Sped3: [00:48:59] I yelled out time. Time as far as being able to go out and do these things because we've got you know I'm preaching to the choir. I know that. But you know with our caseload and everything else that we do we don't have the time to look at it and this becomes something secondary that we scramble to try and make up.

Jodee: [00:49:49] How many of you feel That it would be beneficial for all districts to try to incorporate Transition coordinators exclusively for Secondary.

Sped4: [00:50:02] Very important.

Sped1: [00:50:04] It just depends on how they do it.

Sped5: [00:50:06] Thank you. That's what I was going to say is to have a transition coordinator for the sake of having one. Yeah. It is not necessary.

Jodee: [00:50:18] We want someone that would be well versed within the field would know what there doing?

Sped1: [00:50:26] Maybe some budget or funds for services

[00:50:33] I want to combine Your last question and this question and I think it's true for transition is it's true or general ed whatever. Choices like students parents whatever they need choices if their kid goes to school they don't have the services then let them go to another school. You know let the schools possibly specialize in their field. I know that there is EVIT and West Bank. That's the best thing for these kids don't make it so difficult for them to do half day school and then half day West bank. like you've got to give choices. And so as much as I understand about the time for us. I mean I do get that. But ultimately it's just like anything else. Parents and kids should be given a choice. Well I feel that it was always legislated from the top of people you can't do this well you don't know anything about this. You don't know about the resources. And you're putting arbitrary boundaries on what I can do with and can help this kid by doing this.

Jodee: [00:51:58] Does anybody else have any final thoughts they like to share. Before I turn the recording off as we've reached saturation.