Analysis and Interpretation Worksheet

Speaker 1 ( 00:00:03 ):

Yes. Hello, good evening everybody. My name is Eden pun. I work at the VA hospital. I was in the military. I am a disabled vet. I'm doing my PhD in medical health administration. [inaudible] So that's what I'm doing. My doctorate in, I have two master's degree. I have a MBH and I have an MHA. The MBA is my master's in business administration, and I have my masters in health administration. I'm further in my education so I could move up in the ladder, eh, in the position that I am. And tonight I will be conducting an interview with one of my coworkers from the facility that I work. And I would like to introduce her as participant a participant a how you doing? Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 2 ( 00:01:07 ):

Yes. I have been a registered nurse for the past 34 years going on 35. I first received my nursing license in California, and then I moved and got a reciprocity and lived. I've lived in Florida for the past 31 years. Of, of the 34 years of nursing. I've done several, I've worked at several different areas in the medical field and presently with the VA work in primary care at this time.

Speaker 1 ( 00:01:47 ):

Thank you. The first question I would like to ask you is what motivates you to get up and go to work every single day?

Speaker 2 ( 00:01:58 ):

Well to be honest I need the money, you know, with the money you can't get up, get up, get getting away at your life and with, with the cost of things right now to a one person income is not enough at this time. So that kind of motivate me to go. And then the second reason is that my goal is to be retired in the next five years. So that's, that's a big motivation for me to still afford for a five-year rather than a 10 year working to look work in environment, to look forward to.

Speaker 1 ( 00:02:42 ):

Okay. when you help a patient get well and make full in you and the patient make full recovery, how do you feel well?

Speaker 2 ( 00:02:57 ):

It's to be once you in the nursing profession and you do see your patient recovering very well. It's give you an, a very rewarding feeling in certain, in certain apps of time. Now, in order for us to, to have this rewarding feeling, we first have to have a relationship with the patient, a relationship that developed from the beginning of the initial visit meeting with the nurse and the patient, and when all that goes, when everything goes well and the patient recovered that is such a rewarding feeling for me as a nurse, you know, when the patient improve mentally and physically, and there is no what you call it. There's no, no decline in their in their current status that will cause them to be in hospital in a longer than they should. So that sense of kind of a good feeling that each nurse will get.

Speaker 1 ( 00:04:12 ):

Okay. Okay. Are there times when you felt that you need more help to understand the complex treatment procedure?

Speaker 2 ( 00:04:27 ):

Oh yeah. There are several times because there are times when the, the, the procedure may be ordered, but yet you think, you know, but you do not know, but the very first thing before you make a decision, any error is to clarify it with a doctor, the procedures that need to be done, need to be clarified before you're going in further, and at least would build some confidence into the patient because the patient do know when, when there's something is not right, are the nurses not to verse on what he or she's doing. So it's best to get the information from the doctor and clarify everything before anything can be done. Okay.

Speaker 1 ( 00:05:16 ):

When, when that occurred, like when you when that occurred, that you don't understand a complex treatment or procedure, how did you go about it? I know you explained it a little bit, but

Speaker 3 ( 00:05:30 ):

First what

Speaker 2 ( 00:05:31 ):

I would do is if my coworkers involved then, you know, I asked, you know, if the, if they their experience and, you know, they're very well experienced with the procedure that I'm not experienced, do not have adequate experience with. And if they do not, then definitely that's where the doctor would come in. But first I would ask you making sure that the doctor explained to us exactly what needed to be done in order for the procedures to, to go through successfully. But if any, if I'll be known first, I probably would have asked her one of my coworkers then the doctor, just to confirm everything. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 1 ( 00:06:27 ):

Participant one, a the thing is we worked together in two different areas in the facility. We worked together in the ward, and we also worked together in the surgery slash urology clinic. Can you elaborate on the difference between working the floor on the ward and working in the clinic?

Speaker 2 ( 00:07:01 ):

Okay. Working in in the ward itself it's, I would say it's totally different from the, the clinic, because working on the ward, you already know the problem that the patient has, and then the problem is been taken care of on the ward. So for instance, if the patient comes in and diagnosed with type of cancer bladder cancer, and then the decision would be made for surgery, then the patient would be there and know that they're, they already know whatever diagnosis that they have, and that the plan of care is for surgery. So there would be in the ward and they'll be taken care of by several different disciplines. For instance, you're going to have the anesthesiologists, you're going to have the pharmacist, you're going to have the nurse. You're going to have the lab tech.

Speaker 2 ( 00:08:04 ):

You're going to have the technician, the medical technician, that's at the bedside that's attending to the person who was on the ward. So in order for the after the surgery, then the patient will be okay, taking care of by those different disciplinaries. It may take one week, it may take three days. It depends on the patient recovery status. So it's totally different. The patient pain level will probably be much longer because as a post, as a post-op patient, you will have some pain that would be prolonging and that you require medication every four to six hours. You mean may not be able to eat because you also nauseated after the anesthesia. So medication for nausea, puddle would be given also, they may have a fully catheter and a fully catheter need to be monitored to see if there's any blood dust coming out of it, compared to whatever it is, if it's urine, or is it blood that those need to be to monitor because the patient may be bleeding out and you're not aware of that.

Speaker 2 ( 00:09:30 ):

So being under ward is more complex than being in the clinic setting, you know, as a patient you're, even though, you know, you're still, you're still very the same patient. It's, it's a longer process compared to the clinic process where this patient will be going into. It's still, there's still a teaching to be going on. Teaching is beginning from before surgery doing the admission. And after even after the patient goes home, we still need to be monitored, you know, after the, the surgery. So, unlike the ward that the clinic now, the patient comes in the patients due to maybe a lab result or something, showing that something is going on in the bladder or in the prostate, then the confirmation would be the cystoscopy are the prostate biopsy. Now we're going in, and we're not sure, we're not sure exactly what's going on.

Speaker 2 ( 00:10:44 ):

So that's where the procedure will be done, not if the patient is being taught are, you know, educate as they go along through the whole procedure step-by-step of what to expect after during the procedure and after the procedure, which takes a maximum for the cysto, it takes a maximum of 10 minutes, maybe half an hour for the whole procedure to be done. And at that time, after the procedures, then your patient can, it could be confirmed whether the patient has cancer or not a mild, very mild discomfort, they will wind up having the does not need to be medicated after compared to being on the ward where they need to be medicated after surgery. Now, with the prostate biopsy, there's mild discomfort that the patient is given a lighter cane that it can shot to help deaden the area before the biopsy is done since due to the fact that it does cause some discomfort from that.

Speaker 2 ( 00:11:56 ):

But the patient has been walk. It's been educated as we go along, proceed step by step. Now that procedure takes at least half an hour after the procedure, very rarely does the patient need to be medicated. After, you know, there's post-op procedures that we tell the patient, teach the patient to look forward to any existing bleeding. And if there's any minor pain, they can use a sitz bath or just a regular Tylenol. And, you know, they'll be okay after a while, you know, so you can see the difference between on the ward compared to being in the clinic setting, where the cystos on the biopsies will take place. So it's two different entities right there. The patients who are here longer, an award from peer to the patient short visits in the, in the clinic setting, and it's only involved the nurse, maybe a technician and a doctor that's there compared to all those other disciplinary people that is on the ward has been taking care of the patient after surgery, you know, after surgery to the very end. So that's a big difference.

Speaker 1 ( 00:13:20 ):

Okay. Thank you. So, at the, in the one more question about that working in the clinic, those are minor procedures. Those are not major surgeries, they're just minor, right?

Speaker 2 ( 00:13:33 ):

Those are minor procedures, and that's why we call them minor procedure, you know, but then sometimes very rarely do we have minor procedures turned out to be something very critical, very, very, very rarely a patient may wind up with a little low blood pressure and they may pass out. So that's the only maybe adverse reaction we may have from the procedure itself. You know, so it is minor, you know, compared to the major surgery that care plan of care. If there's a diagnosis confirmed that the patient has cancer, then that would be big time procedure right there. I wouldn't be minded. I would be very, very detrimental for these patients if they're not taken care of,

Speaker 1 ( 00:14:32 ):

What's the process like when you do a minor procedure, what's the process like what's the steps of the system and what does the nurse do in the process of the procedure?

Speaker 2 ( 00:14:46 ):

Okay. the, the reason, the reason some patients are required to have sisters, maybe because there has been some patient may have problem urinating, or they may find that they have from a urinalysis, if they find out they have blood in their urine, now that's a decision it's up to the patient and patient, whether the patient wants to, to choose to do something like a Cysto or just leave it alone, most patients will choose to have the system because they're having some urinary problem. First, the patient will be scheduled for a cystoscopy and that we do tell the patient that they can eat. It's not like they're going to be put to sleep. It's just no type of anesthetic, it will be given, but those local anesthetics will be given so they can eat before they're coming in.

Speaker 2 ( 00:15:47 ):

Some patients do require we do give antibiotic before the procedure. So just as a prophylactic antibiotic that is given to the patient. So, we do tell the patient that we tell the patient to be there half an hour just in case. Cause you got to get by the vitals, and check labs done, you have to be undressed and all that. And sometimes patient do get nervous. So, we have to give them some time to, to be calm before they take the before they do the procedure before the, we do educate them of what to expect. And even when they do show up for their appointment, we do still tell them exactly what to expect with the, the system you're first, you're going to be your vital science. It's going to be taken. As I said, there's going to be order for an antibiotic.

Speaker 2 ( 00:16:45 ):

Some doctors do some don't and then you're going to be asked to undress from your waist down walk you to the procedure room, and then we walked you in there. We, we explain what is going to be done. Like we're going to be using our sterile procedure to prevent any infection. So we do clean the area that's going to be use. And sterile drape has been used. We tell the patient all that then the, the doctor would be called. We do, we do tell the patient that to, to make sure that they know exactly that they're doing what they're about to have done. So we do what we'd call a timeout. And we asked the patient to, as soon as the doctor comes in, we ask the patient their name, their date of birth and what procedure they’re about to have done, just to make sure that we have the right patient and right procedure.

Speaker 2 ( 00:17:50 ):

This is done in all patients to make sure there's no arrow into wrong patient in set up for a procedure that is not required. So doing all that, then the doctor do explain to the patient, there's a monitor there. We do tell the patient, there's a monitor that they'll be looking at. They, they they're able to see the monitor, the same thing that the doctor and the nurses see he can, he or she can see two of the any findings that they may find a deal with the cystoscopy to see inside the bladder. And we tell the patient to the two pictures are taken during the procedure, if there's any abnormal findings, the picture is taken and is sent to his or her chart that keep us as a record for the patient after the procedure, the patient you know, we just check for, if the patients are stable, if there's an, a nervousness and a thing, you know, increased pain or anything which very, really do.

Speaker 2 ( 00:18:59 ):

And patients is escorted back to the area to be, to be changed and do a follow-up appointment if necessary to make a follow-up appointment, to see that the doctor, the doctor wants to speak to them. If there is a finding, you know, that need to be addressed right away, then the doctor will see the patient immediately and discuss the plan of care. The next plan of care, if, if surgery is a plan of care and the same thing with the biopsy, the patient will be called, the patient will be called several days ahead of time. And asked, we'll tell them to, if they're on any blood thinners, any vitamins, vitamin E, or anything that causes the blood to be fin to increase bleeding, we tell the patient to, to stop all that at least seven days before then do have some herbal medication that patient takes that will cause increased bleeding.

Speaker 2 ( 00:20:11 ):

So we do tell the patient to stop all that. If the patient are on blood thinner, related to their heart, we do tell the patient to, to discuss it with their doctor, their primary care doctor. And they're the ones supposed to really regulate the blood thinner that the patients are on. Cause yeah, you don't want any adverse reaction from the patient not taking their medication after a period of time. So the patient do stop taking the medicine. If, if it's not detrimental, then the patient will come in and then we do before the appointment, before their appointment day, we do call them and tell them several days. And then during the appointment time, we do tell them the same thing, but we do confirm to see if they, if they had stopped taking any blood thinner, we do recommend that they do have breakfast because a lot of people get lightheaded.

Speaker 2 ( 00:21:13 ):

During the procedure they'll be given antibiotic and I am antibiotic as well. Sometimes we give them both I am an appeal, depends on the doctor will be given that to the patient. The patient vital signs will be done and the patient will be changed from the waist down is of course we do. Told, tell the patients that the physician awkward position that they'll be on. So at least when they walk in the room, they know exactly what position they are going to be in. And you know, to deescalate and anxiety level that they may have. There, you know, they, they know exactly what to look forward to during the whole procedure. We do tell the patient exactly like we have 12 biopsies that will be taken for all around the, the depressed state. So we do count them and tell them, you know, you're doing one.

Speaker 2 ( 00:22:15 ):

And then when we should, the last one, we do say, okay, this is the last one. And they, all the labels are all the 12 procedures or biopsies are all labeled with the patient's name, date of birth and all of that, that, that to do, expand to the patient that it'll take maybe a week or so for the results have come back you know, to see exactly if there's any cancer in the prostate and home, how much percent of it is in the prostate. So we'll know from the biopsies results with that. So with that if there is X amount of percentage of breast cancer in the prostate, then the Dr. Plan of care possible will be for the patient. He would, they have options, whether it be surgery, are they do radiation depends on the patient option. So that, that will, this is where the, if the patient do have surgery, then that's where the, the time would be much longer on the ward to recover from the first date biopsy. It is, it is done an outside outpatient base but required maybe a 24 hour monitor in before the patient goes home that I'm sure the patient is at a level of decrease much better knowing that from the beginning to the end, that they know exactly what to expect. Okay, sir.

Speaker 1 ( 00:23:53 ):

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The other question I have when a patient does have a cysto done, are they supposed to repeat it or, or no?

Speaker 2 ( 00:24:11 ):

Well, it depends. The system can be repeated depends on the fine, and they can be done some do it like every three months, some dancers do it every six months. It depends on what the findings were. If the patient had previous history of bladder cancer and they're just monitoring the patient, then the patient can be depending on the Patient, the doctor. It can be done every three months, every six months are, or a year. It depends on the status of the bladder itself. So it can be repeated, you know, but not, not so close, you know, behind each other to be scheduled to be done, but it depends on the findings and how things are progressing with the patient. If the patient had bladder cancer and they want to see how the healing process is going, then it can be done maybe every three months, you know, and then they move it on to every six months, you know, so, and then it goes on, if everything goes well after the, if they had surgery it depends on the findings. Then the data will decide decided or three months, you know, so that's how the schedule, it depends on what the findings of the, the, the outcome of the procedure artist's surgery.

Speaker 1 ( 00:25:46 ):

Okay. what technique have you discovered that will make your work easier as a nurse?

Speaker 2 ( 00:25:58 ):

I find if I'm doing a procedure are even a procedure or a treatment, or even a simple thing as maybe doing a dressing change in Ivy to get out the, the items that you need is needed that once if possible to be done at the bedside of the patient, everything to be done, because I do notice that patient get very nervous if the nurse has to keep going in and out in and out. And it does show that the, the, the nurse probably, that's not really a seasoned, I don't even know what they're doing, you know, that makes the patient on competent. So, what I find myself doing, and I've been doing it for years is to get all the equipment or whatever I may need all at once if possible that it can be done to ease the, the patient anxiety level. So I find that works on it, and I'll continue to do that, you know, till I leave nursing. Okay.

Speaker 1 ( 00:27:14 ):

What instance in your nursing career do you think you did particularly well in an assignment? I think my

Speaker 2 ( 00:27:26 ):

Best part is preoperative and postoperative patient teaching may get a patient that's coming in and you prompted the patient. We get all the gears back incentive, spirometer that the patient's going to meet. I take that and give it to them. The pain levels and all those things that need to be can be recorded before. Then you'll tell the person, this is what I'm going to expect of you when you before after surgery, you're going to be doing data centers around, but are you going to be using this to help get the anesthetic out of your lungs? So start using it that she gets used to it, whether it may be I've done a surgery, whatever surgery is you're going to need that incentive parameter. And you need a pain medication to go along with it.

Speaker 2 ( 00:28:25 ):

Don't hold off on the pain medication. So all this asks for your pain medication. I do think that doing the whole procedure then the patient, I wouldn't know exactly what to expect, and it makes it much easier for, for the nurse and the patient to, to come to a conclusion that this is work, you know, the pre-op procedure teaching and the post teaching already was established when the patient got in there. So all during the hospitalization time, then the patient will be more compliant into one or two to do whatever it is to, to get this ball rolling before they, they leave. They're discharged. So that's one of my, greatest reward is to, to help them, to get, to teach them and help them to get up, get in another there in no time. Have you,

Speaker 1 ( 00:29:43 ):

Were you rewarded for the, the same particular, like the assignment that you did well? Was you ever rewarded for that?

Speaker 2 ( 00:29:56 ):

Because I guess as a nurse, you don't look for reward. The only reward you look forward to not in no reward from your, your, your superiors, but, you know, the reward that you look forward to is an, a patient can thank you. You know, that, that, that is a reward. So any, any other reward I wouldn't, I'm not looking forward for a reward from my superiors because a force is my job. That that was what I chose to do my career to do as a nurse and to aid a patient in the time of need. So I don't think I'm working for I'm working for a reward. The reward is a patient getting better, so never looking forward.

Speaker 1 ( 00:30:51 ):

Okay. As a nurse, there are times you would encounter a stressful event, for instance, when an incident happens and there are so many patients coming in and seeking help, how, how, how, how, how you handle that?

Speaker 2 ( 00:31:12 ):

Well, if it's, if it's an, a life in a disaster, a disaster are some type of pandemic environmental disaster or an accident. And patients that come in and lift them, right. What the main thing you need to do is to triage the patient from the very minor to the most serious type of problem that they may have in order to do that. I would, as a nurse, probably if I am in charge, what I would do is to have someone go around with everyone's name and possibly their problem, the problem that they may have other than a board, at least we will make sure that we, we miss anyone, but there are times when you probably miss someone and, and the person may pass up, person may die, but at least we have a login of everybody care and with their problem that they may have as we go through the, the time the sheriff or whatever it is, you go back to the person, to the person hasn't been being seen are the problem has been resolved.

Speaker 2 ( 00:32:37 ):

You still go back to the patient and said, you're going to be next, you know, just to deescalate and then anxiety. The patient may have, if the patient needs some aggressive care, then that's where the nurse as a charge nurse, you would, would inform the doctor and the doctor would work, work into getting that one taken care of just to, to avoid any other misleading, have not read the misleading, but forgetting about patients that who wind up with a little minor problem may turn into something very critical. So, if we have the nurses triaging all these patients, then you know, the stress, the stress level will decrease in that way. If we all work together to we do, we do need not just the nurse, but the charge nurse and the nurses, but everyone who's working in that environment to, to work together, to help the escalate, any increased stress that we may have. Yes.

Speaker 1 ( 00:33:53 ):

What gives you joy and satisfaction in your work?

Speaker 2 ( 00:33:58 ):

Oh, boy, I think the best joy is to see maybe when a patient came in, for instance lately we had this young guy came in and guy wound up with a virus and he was unable to speak. He was unable to move his head. He wasn't able, I mean, he was not able to do anything, just lay there and with the, with the perseverance of the patient and the nurses, we all, each of us has early duties to do, and we go in and we help the patient to, okay, move your hand a little bit for me, move with me. Instead of nodding your head yeah. Said, try to say yes, you know, and it it's within a week, we saw such a vast difference in the patient, and that is such a big, big praise, you know, for the patient, as long as well as the nurses to see that the, this person who couldn't do all those things within a week ago within now, one week with all this motivation that the patient had a facelift is doing much better, was able to eat.

Speaker 2 ( 00:35:30 ):

And now he's eating a regular food within I would say the time when I met him within fix about two weeks for him to reach from back stage, from, from a clear liquid thickened liquid to, to a regular diet. So that, that is one of the most reward, I would say that was a reward and feeling that that I got from being a nurse too, you know. Okay.

Speaker 1 ( 00:36:06 ):

How many times have you gone to your supervisor? So seek for help? Well,

Speaker 2 ( 00:36:16 ):

Not too often, what I try to do first I would say it depends on the supervisor knowledge because some supervisors that was not so much, much more, and they try to bluff their way. So, what I'll do, I'll get more from a seasoned (experienced) coworker who may know a little bit more sometimes than the, the supervisor itself. And I will try and get information if I cannot get the information from the season, then I'll go to the supervisor, but I try not to, to you know, overdo the idea of because he either he or she's a supervisor to go there and ask us sometimes as, as I said, they probably don't even know themselves, but, but just to, to test the water, sometimes we do ask the supervisor to you know, to maybe help you with certain things.

Speaker 2 ( 00:37:18 ):

If you're not, if you're not able to do it, just to see if he, or she knows exactly what they're doing for sometimes they may pass it over to somebody else, you know, are some, may be honest enough to say, honestly, I don't know, but I don't, I don't really as a nurse. So I've been a nurse all these years. I don't really go to my supervisor much, you know I just try to solve it myself and then if I can't solve it myself, then, then that's where I go to them. So yeah.

Speaker 1 ( 00:37:52 ):

If you do not understand some instruction from your boss bosses, do you seek for help?

Speaker 2 ( 00:38:02 ):

Oh, yes. Definitely because I don't want to be I definitely, I would have to ask because you don't want to assume things and then it's not it's not done to prep away and of course you have to go to the change of command. So, if anything if you don't understand, and definitely the chain of command is, is the supervisor and the supervisor can help you, then you go to somebody else. But definitely I would definitely will go there for instruction or even, even not the supervisor too. We with doctors too, if you don't understand definitely go to the supervisor or the doctor to prevent any arrow that you may regret later on.

Speaker 1 ( 00:38:52 ):

Okay. You've been a nurse for, for pretty long time. And your honest opinion. If you had to, if, if, if you would change anything, what would you change? Would you, would you, would you redo it? Would you become a nurse? What would you try different careers?

Speaker 2 ( 00:39:26 ):

I'm always wanted to become a airlines still with us. So that was, that was my, one of my dream to become that. And I thought that was so nice and exotic. You get to travel all over the world and all those things, but yes and no. If I knew what I was if I knew what I knew now, I probably would have gotten into a different era of nursing rather than bedside care. I would be more, a little bit better off in the, in the teaching setting. You know, it would've been more in a teaching setting because at least sometimes you, you, you get some, you get more reward from that because when you, when you were at the bedside, it's, it is so stressful. It is costly on your body. And, and with that, it turns you off from nursing and with nursing has so many different areas of working.

Speaker 2 ( 00:40:31 ):

I definitely probably would have chosen some other area in nursing rather than a bedside care nursing, but still, it able there to, to teach patient because I love teaching. I probably would have go more into geriatric all the way, rather than trying different eras of nursing before, you know, Scott loved geriatric nursing. So I think I may, I probably would have been my place of doing, you know, help them just to, just to, even after a stroke, to help them to, to get the little life back together. That part I wouldn't love because they appreciate the, the nurses more as a geriatric people, you know, you do get to, to learn from them. And then not only that they're very grateful. So that would probably be, if I didn't become a stewardess, I'd probably become a geriatric nurse, but not at the bedside though.

Speaker 1 ( 00:41:35 ):

Me and you both are from the west Indies. And I know my family the biggest thing for them is doctor lawyer nurse was that was, was, was that part of your families? Oh

Speaker 2 ( 00:41:53 ):

Yeah. Don't forget the teacher to doctor lawyer. Nurse teacher.

Speaker 1 ( 00:41:56 ):

Yeah. Yes. It's yes. UI it’s doctor, nurse, lawyer teacher. Yeah. Was that, was that part of what was implemented in you from your parents, your family? Because me personally, that's what was implemented in me. You have to become a doctor or lawyer. They didn't care about, like, I remember my family didn't care about how great of a basketball player Jordan was or anybody was, they looked at sports is not something that's a career. A career

Speaker 2 ( 00:42:40 ):

Is an activity. It's an activity.

Speaker 1 ( 00:42:42 ):

Yes. Because I remember as a kid, I, I, I used to go to basketball practice or soccer practice. And when I telling my pants, they looked at me like, who cares? Did you do your homework? Did you do this? And why did you stay after school? That means you took time away from your studies. Did that ever, did that play a role in your, in your, in your life? And then,

Speaker 2 ( 00:43:08 ):

Yeah, definitely because you couldn't watch TV a certain time book, you get a book or read a book, you deal with that. The enjoyment of being a kid wasn't for our team, it was a school, school, school was as a priority. If you, I mean, if you can't smile or make a joke or everything, shouldn't you be reading, this are where read your Bible. Okay. It's one of those things. But I find that, I mean, even though that you may have you know, in the Western union may have sports, they, and all those things, but you see, after that fourth day, you got, you have to go back to the book. It was all in the books, you know, I athletic can't athletic career can feed you on all those. So they never see anything beyond that. You have to have something that somebody to be proud of because their stigmas.

Speaker 2 ( 00:43:58 ):

And I probably don't know the difference that, you know, that's what they were taught. That, you know, you got to be a nurse, you have to be a doctor. You have to be a teacher in order to be somebody. If you're not one of those in those career, you know, nobody is being a carpenter who you look down at a carpenter, a plumber, you know, they don't realize that without the plumber or the carpenter, some people are having a place to live, you know, but I mean, being at that to, yes, you look up the, I remember when, you know, you're Paul you don't have to call them Mrs. Such something called a nurse, this doctor, this, and it is such a nice feeling. And people look up to them in the neighborhood and all those things. I mean, you know, they're like gods, you know, they're like gods, but as I said, this is what they were taught, so they didn't know any different.

Speaker 2 ( 00:44:54 ):

So that was what we were taught to do. And majority from what we see in when the Caribbean and other third world country, majority of them are doctors, nurses, teachers, oh, and a policeman and the policeman, you know? So those, those are the big career. Anything else doesn't matter at all? You know? And I think it's still, it's still, they're still instilling in these people even to this very day right now that you can be a basketball player and have the education come first, you know, you have to have education to become of, you know, whatever you want to be. Yeah. But that's his number one for us. I mean, I don't think it would ever stop my year.

Speaker 1 ( 00:45:43 ):

And I could say, I agree with that in a way, because I notice half of my parents, because with my daughter and my son, Monday through Thursday, they can't watch TV. It's all about the books. And my kids grew up following that as I did that when my parents was raising me with that, do you think it's a good thing that the way our Western, these parents or family raised us because,

Speaker 2 ( 00:46:26 ):

Well, and it's bad because not all, not all kid is was born to be smart. Okay. And no matter how many books you may put in front of this person they may not be able to, to, to, to retain those things at all. So even, you know, you may say, okay, no TV for the rest of the week or blah, blah, whatever it is. Or do you book for who to say that the kid is retained? Anything when, when, when the book is this sitting in front of the book, are they retaining anything? Are they just doing it just for, you know, later on in life, you'll find out, you know, that maybe the kid wasn't learning anything or even at the end of the school year, you'll find out that. But sometimes other leeway is kind of good for the poor kid, because as I said, sometimes it's just not that into the books, you know, and especially if there's a subject that they hate that I keep telling them, go do this and do that.

Speaker 2 ( 00:47:32 ):

And, and if you're not helping them to, if they're not getting any help with that particular class or whatever, then it's, it's harder on these kids. It's more stressful mentally, but then they have so much respect for you that they can't tell you because you know, growing up that, you know, you're not supposed to talk back to your elders, either, sit there and just take it, you know, and you will see in the end, what becomes that? As I said, there are sometimes there, some kids don't grasp it that early, you know, you may have them there and they may be able to look into the book, but they're not retaining, I know a particular kid came up to the states and they did everything. He was a smart in school at all, going back in in, in in the island.

Speaker 2 ( 00:48:20 ):

And he came to, you know, Steve and he still wasn't that smart at all. You know, they gave him all the, the tutoring and the whole thing. Okay. And he just couldn't get it. He barely graduated from high school here. He went into the military, he came back out of the military and he decided to go back to school. And all of a sudden this guy who wasn't making everybody that gave up on him, he he's now a professor. He is not a professor, you know, teaching accounting, you know? So sometimes some kids don't get it at that time. They get it later on in life. And no matter how many books you might put in front of them, they may not get it at that time. You know, they get it later on. So we don't know just that's part of life that we have to take chance. You know,

Speaker 1 ( 00:49:20 ):

I, I, I can say, I agree with you. Because what I did with my, with my oldest, my daughter, what I did with her is I wasted like that by, Hey, it's books, Monday to Thursday, and then the weekend is yours. But even though the weekend is yours, you still have to go back and look at the book. You know, you got to do a little refresh before the whole weekend is yours. What I noticed but I also gave her the freedom to be her. I think that's what my parents didn't do with us. Exactly. They just like, Hey, all you all, the only thing we want is doctors, lawyers and this, and there's no such thing as failing. Yes. And I was so with my daughter, I told her, look, I'm all about the books because the books is plan a, I says, plan B Willy. The best plan is to open your own business, become an entrepreneur, but you need money for that. You need lawns, you need all this access. So as to get you to, to, to that, if you, if you in plan a could become plan B, if you succeed in entrepreneurship and that's how I've always taught so to them. But I noticed my family, then they talk,

Speaker 2 ( 00:50:59 ):

Oh, well, they tell you they didn't, they there's no such thing. It's either. There was no question towards anything. There was you, you just take it and that's it. Yeah. You just

Speaker 1 ( 00:51:10 ):

Had to follow what the wan. What, they said? Cause it was a dictatorship.

Speaker 2 ( 00:51:17 ):

It was a dictatorship. It was a dictatorship. You know, you, you, you were so you couldn't enjoy yourself in it, you know, in between time per school or whatever. I think he would just always book the book, the book, the book. But then again, sometimes what happened, it might reverse on them. You might turn around and then where the kid just retaliate. And I said, forget this, you know, I'm not going to do it. And then the kid will be an outcast, you know? Yeah. I sent you to school to become a doctor and a teacher, a nurse, and look at it. You become whatever it is. I want to become a what they call it. Their a carpenter are digging ditch or something like that, but they don't, you know, they don't see that because they're looking into other people's eyes, you know that, oh my God, you know, their kid turned out to be this and that kid, proud to be this and look what happened to mine, you know? So they, they look, they're not, they're just thinking of themselves sometimes. You know, Myra, you know, that's the take the shame out of there. I, I think in that way, it is. Yeah, definitely because I find sometimes that if you see for instance, Ms. Jane, who was that? The community, nurse nurses there all that time, and Ms. Jane actually didn't want to be no nurse, but

Speaker 1 ( 00:52:46 ):

I remember Ms. Jane upstairs from the war.

Speaker 2 ( 00:52:49 ):

Yes. You know, they don't want it to be a nurse, but because the family push her to be that, but that's not what she wants to be because that's the, that's what the family wants. You know, you look good because you get disrespect. You know, even sometimes she doesn't even know what she's doing, but still she's a nurse. You're a nurse, aren't you, you know, but they don't realize that being a nurse, you have different era of specialty that you can work, you know, just don't become general nurse. You know? So when they, when they see that, you know, they, they just assume that with Jane, no, every time I think that she's, she's a nurse, you know, not knowing that sometime it's dangerous, probably bluffing her way. And she does want to become a nurse because her family wants her to become a nurse, but maybe she didn't even want to become a nurse. Maybe she wanted to become an artist, you know, but, and they have that in them, but they never allow you to have a second chance is always, that is the first. And that is the only chance you've got, you know, you have to become whatever profession they want you to become. You know? So we hope that stigmatism, it's kind of changing as the, as the years go by in, in the world. Caribbean people, we hope the other question I have for you

Speaker 1 ( 00:54:12 ):

Since your family wanted you to become a nurse doctor or lawyer or teacher, did you ever use that against them to get what you want?

Speaker 2 ( 00:54:30 ):

So, because I didn't, I didn't want to put the guilt, the guilt on them. He's going to turn back. Then you say, see, you turn out to be something. You know what I mean? So, no, I never, I never use that. You know, that that would be a, such a guilt, guilt trip for, for them. So I never use it because at least I'm making a career out of it. I had options.

Speaker 1 ( 00:54:57 ):

The reason why I asked that question, I had, I had, I had a friend of mine's nephew. He, his parents is from the west Sandy's and his parents, all they talk about is what we just said. Doctor's law is a song, especially his mom. His mom looked at doctors as God. The next thing to God, the next thing after God, she always put it. God is first, then doctors. So this, this, this kid notice that that's what his parents want. He spent his whole life telling them, that's what he's going to be. And they, whatever he wants, they buy it. Whatever he wants, they give it to him. It doesn't matter the cost.

Speaker 1 ( 00:55:43 ):

And then he graduated high school. He's still telling me I'm going to become a doctor, but he's telling everybody else, yo, I'm just going to go to college and see what's out there. So, he goes to college first, six months, he Flunks out, he didn't drop out. He flunked out. And then he goes back home and saw his mom. It's not for me, I'm going to be an artist. Right. And she's like, okay. So you're going to go to school to learn art. And he's like, no, he says, I'm going to live like the great, the great ones, you know, go from here and there then find my calling.

Speaker 1 ( 00:56:37 ):

So now the parents are like somewhat disappointed. They don't talk about him no more before they it's like, everywhere you go, psycho, my son is going to be this, my son. So now it's like all of a sudden, it's like, this person never existed in their life. And that was the reason why I asked. It's like, I, I feel like when you put so much pressure on a kid or the kid, and sometimes it's not questioned, like with them, it wasn't more, it wasn't pressure like, oh, this is what you have to be. It's just that he, at a young age, notice they expectation what they want, what they feel. So he, he fed them that by words,

Speaker 2 ( 00:57:26 ):

Right. When he really knows that that's not what, that's not what he really wants. So it, it, I don't think that the parents really get it. I think they're still very, it wouldn't be very disappointed. You know, they don't get it, that you have to be what he wants to be. There was no option. There was no option in his life to be whatever he wants to be is what they want. It they're our parents, what they tried to do is to instill things that they never had. I never did into us, but then we're living their life, not our life. You know? So when the, when the kid wants to live his own life and being whatever he wants to be there, and he's an outcast, you know, and they don't talk about him anymore because they spent all this money, but you didn't ask him what he wanted. This is what you think you is good for him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 ( 00:58:26 ):

So like what it's like for me, it's like what they've been emphasizing because they never told him this is what he have to be, but it's just the way that they talk about like, especially his mom, the way she talk about doctors. So he's like, okay, that's the trick. If I want anything that's because he looked at it. Here's the thing. He's the youngest out of all her kids. So he's the youngest. So he followed that. He noticed like, okay, she's not paying attention to the other two because they went their separate ways.

Speaker 2 ( 00:59:01 ):

They went their separate way. So my little one,

Speaker 1 ( 00:59:05 ):

Yeah. Once I said, I'm going to become a doctor, she keeps me under her arm and whatever I ask, I get

Speaker 2 ( 00:59:17 ):

Yep. But it, see, this is this, this is, this is a learning. This is a learning time for most parents. But as I said, it depends on the, the, the nationality of the ethnic background. And as the parent, they, some of them refuse to, to, to learn and others you know, accepted and go away and become, then they start to look into things as you know, all that time that keeping telling me that, you know, you know, maybe it's my fault, but some of them, they're not going to admit to it. They're not going to admit, you know, it was all about for the kid for the kid's sake, but it's not, it's not the kids sick is for them. You know, I need a doctor in a family. So, you know, it's like, that can get all the benefits from that. You know, for instance my, my, my, one of my niece in Jamaica and she's a doctor. Okay. I mean, a force, you know, doctors are God and the Caribbean and her mother, her mother goes to the doctor and don't have to pay, oh, you're doctor such and such a mother. So there's no money involved because they looked up to her, you know, she goes to the pharmacy, oh, this is Dr. Such and such mother. Oh, go ahead. If she's in the bank line. Oh, just such a [inaudible].

Speaker 2 ( 01:00:48 ):

So, there's, there’s a, there's something behind all that. There's a class

Speaker 1 ( 01:00:53 ):

In the Caribbean, in the west end. These it's like, once you become a doctor, it's like all the doors open to your family for whatever or whatever. Yeah. And that's the difference for me? It's like the difference here and over there, here, you could be a doctor. You just a doctor by the word doctor, doctor. Yeah. You know, it's not like, oh, I'm a doctor. Now my whole family could go to the hospital for free. But in the Caribbean, we know this is how it goes.

Speaker 2 ( 01:01:30 ):

So it goes on and it's, it's, it's one of those unwritten rules, you know, that is there. You just have to accept it. That's how things are you go to a hotel, you get the very best, oh, you've stepped up to such and such. You know? So at least there's some benefits to us that they may not get the pay, but they do get some recognition, you know, and our culture either works that way. So

Speaker 1 ( 01:02:00 ):

With that said, with all that was talking about without how our culture treat people in their kids, when it comes to careers, there was a question I, because when I was younger I've always thought it's because of two things. And a and the question I want to ask you is, do you think, do you think our parents is at that time with you, do you think your parents was looking out for the best for you could see the greatness in you not just about themselves.

Speaker 2 ( 01:02:43 ):

I think it was about themself because guess what's, you're when you're, when you're that young, they there was not much there to display because you weren't allowed to display your, like, so your dislike were certain things you were kids or to be to be seen and not heard. So in other words, there was no way for you to express yourself. If they ask you something, you have to, yes. Ma'am there was no book. There was no button in anything to explain yourself. It's just that their way or the highway. So at that age, they're not, they can see the potential in the kid to see where the kid is going to go, because they don't allow it. They did not allow them to express themselves. You know? So I see it in a sense that they only doing it for themselves, you know?

Speaker 2 ( 01:03:41 ):

Cause I mean, here this Western world, the kid can't be able to express themselves. Can't even him to express himself at that tender age of what clothes they want to wear. You know, I see here boys who were, boys were a little girl at schools and express themselves, but you, we don't have that in that culture, you are going to be the nurse. You're going to be the teacher. And that's what you got to be, you know, no ifs or buts about that. So they, they, they, they couldn't see the potential in the kid at that age because you weren't allowed to show your potential, you know, unless you're a runner, they know that you're going to run, but still, even if you're a runner, you still have to, to learn that your book first and a good part of what the only good part about that to love about the Caribbean is that you learn by memories.

Speaker 2 ( 01:04:30 ):

You make everything you're doing, you learn by memory and then you're not only by memory, but also you figure it out yourself rather than have a machine, allow those things, do that to help us in life as we go on, you know, rather than have machine thinking for us and all those things, that's a good part about it. But the other part about it is that you have no choice, you know, to express yourself. So they would not know that you want to be something else other than what they want you to be. What do you think?

Speaker 1 ( 01:05:05 ):

I agree with you that a lot of time is about themselves. And I also, sometime because I sometime fight it because sometimes I'm like, yeah, it's about themselves. And then this other time, I'm like they have a high expectation in us because some of them, and I look at my mom, my mom dropped out of school because her mom died and that's who she had. And somebody had to take over for her siblings. So she was the oldest. So I look at it like, okay, she, for me, it's like, she didn't make it far in school too, to be great. So now she's looking in me and she see a potential in me to carry it on, to carry it on. It's like, okay, here's the path? The path is doctor, lawyer, nurse police, no sports. None of that. That's not, that's not allowed. So for me, it's like, sometime I look at it, what they wanted, they try to implement it in us. But I do feel they go about it the one

Speaker 2 ( 01:06:33 ):

Way wrong way.

Speaker 1 ( 01:06:35 ):

I feel like they should allow us. So have the option going up in the Caribbean, we didn't have an option. Like you said, like with, like, when I look at myself, the way I gave my daughter option, it's like, okay, I want you to be on the books, but you could be an entrepreneur if you want, but I still want you to go to school to get something just in case if entrepreneurship don't work for you to have a nursing degree or you have a degree

Speaker 2 ( 01:07:10 ):

In, yeah. It can't take it away from you. You know, you could

Speaker 1 ( 01:07:14 ):

Survive after I'm gone. I feel, I feel like our parents didn't think that way. They just thought I didn't make it for whatever reason I didn't make it. But if I have to push you that way, I'm going to push you that way. No ifs, no buts about it.

Speaker 2 ( 01:07:32 ):

No buts about it, you know, because they didn't have it in choice. You know, what do you see? At least you're, you're breaking the cycle, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 ( 01:07:43 ):

Cause like when, when, when, when I took my daughter, when I took my daughter to college orientation and I got a phone call from my wife because I dropped them off. Cause only one parent was allowed to meet it. So I dropped them off and my wife was with her and my wife called me, oh, you got to tell her she needs to go. She needs to take nurse. And I said, I don't have to tell her nothing. She needs to choose what she wants. I said, she said she got the time to choose what she wants. I'm going to pay for it. But once I noticed she she's just jumping from class to class, she doesn't have no idea. Then I'm going to stop paying for them or tell her she needs to go to a community college. And so she figured out what she wants. I'm not going to keep paying this money and you don't know what you want. Right. You know, so I let her choose. And that's why she went from her major was psychology and her minor was physician assistant. Then she changed physician assistant to nursing. She ended up taking so much classes. She ended up with two, two bachelor's degree.

Speaker 2 ( 01:08:53 ):

You met your goal. So

Speaker 1 ( 01:08:57 ):

You have first choice, which was her choice.

Speaker 2 ( 01:09:03 ):

Right. But you see what she wants, but you see what your wife was doing. All, she was doing the same thing as our parents. Exactly. You have to allow them to make that decision because they still can make money. If they do not become a lawyer, a doctor or a nurse or whatever, there's still there's money out there, you know, to be made. And now we need other professions too. You know, we can't survive off of just those, those main careers. So in a way we need to clap again, get away from it. And I think we are getting away from it. We, we, we, we slowly breaking the cycle, we were brought up, you know, so these kids are able to meet their one decision at this time. Definitely.

Speaker 1 ( 01:10:04 ):

Thank you for, allow me to do this interview, participant a I've learned a lot, and I hope you also got something from, from, from, from, from, from this.

Speaker 2 ( 01:10:20 ):

Yes. Yes, yes. And, and, and the good part about this thing is still, it just kind of help you to, to what was this course? You think about your kid and other things that that we, that we have planned for them that we have to step back sometimes, you know, sometimes we tend to stick right back into the, the, the parents the old time role. So when we discussed this, it kind of help us to, Britain's continued to try to break the cycle that we were brought up into.

Speaker 1 ( 01:10:59 ):

Cause like when I was, when I, chose to do the interview I, I didn't think about a lot of things, but as we do in the interview then I remember we both were from the west end east from the Caribbean. And I know a lot of our choices of becoming a nurse or doctor or whatever was going to become, it was already pre-determined

Speaker 2 ( 01:11:29 ):

Instill in us. Yes. It

Speaker 1 ( 01:11:31 ):

Was pre-determined for us by our parents. Like, Hey, Eden, this is what you're going to do. And you got to follow it though. Yes. Because and as we doing the interview, that's why I started coming to my head. And that's why, that's why the last part of the interview. We went into that because I remember, like I said, I remember me chasing nursing and I went to, I did nursing assistant. I did medical assistant. I studied, I studied I studied my LPN. I, I only had one more, one more semester left for me to get my nursing degree in LPN. I did radiology. So I was still following a medical career because of what was implemented in me without even realizing, hold up on exactly what they want without even thinking about it.

Speaker 2

Yup, yup, yup. Yup.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's just embedded in you then later on, I decided I was like, you know what, let me, let me, let me go. And 11 I'm too old to be following everything they want. Let me go into business. And I went and got my bachelor's in, in business administration slash human resource. And then after that I was like, let me get my master's in business. And I was like, you know what? I might as well get a double master's and I did a double master's now I'm doing my PhD and health administration.

Speaker 2 ( 01:13:15 ):

Right. Because that's what you want to know, even though you're still going into the health,

Speaker 1 ( 01:13:21 ):

But not to the health, to the administration side, you know? And I remember I spoke to them and I explained to them, I said, you know, there's other parts of the world that does not see a medical doctor as nothing. I said, if I, I don't remember which country cause I was telling them, telling my parents. I said, I don't remember which country. I don't remember if it's China or Japan. They'll look at teachers as the greatest because I'm not the cannot become a doctor without a teacher.

Speaker 2 ( 01:13:58 ):

That's a teacher. Ah [inaudible]

Speaker 1 ( 01:14:02 ):

Cause they need, they need a teacher to teach them to be that doctor. Exactly. So a teacher is, is, is more important in that culture. That's why a teacher gets paid. If I remember, I don't remember which country that's why that teacher, the teacher gets paid more than a doctor gets paid, really? Because the teacher's important. So I had to explain that to them. And then when I told them I'm doing my doctorate, this is also you're going to become a doctor. I says, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not the medical side. This is the research side. The research side, what it does is we do research to find out what's what we could change and make better in the medical field. I says, once we find out how we could change and make something better, then it, it fits if it's good enough and they see that as good enough, then the government, they could use that and implement it. Now all these MD that you see as God have to follow what we just created.

Speaker 2 ( 01:15:13 ):

Yep. Yep.

Speaker 1 ( 01:15:15 ):

You know, so I had to explain that to them, you know, and [inaudible], I don't know if it, if it got, if they understood it or if they really cared or if they don't care, but you know, it is what it is. but it is, it is. Yeah. But like, you know, this interview was really great. I enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it. And thank you for being a nurse. Thank you for following your parents' ways of becoming a nurse. I know.

Speaker 2 ( 01:15:52 ):

I feel it for them, even though it's a little word and because it, you get it, you have some medical knowledge and you do better in life health wise. Yeah. Yes, definitely.

Speaker 1 ( 01:16:07 ):

All right. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your night. You too. Bye-Bye.