HiST 201 Essay 2: What was History to the First Historians? Comparing Herodotus and Thucydides

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Today’s Topics (10/15):

Discussion: Herodotus’ aims and approach

Herodotus bio recap

Discussion: Herodotus’ accounts of Candaules, Croesus, and Astyages

Oracles, Dreams, and fantastic events

Other sources for the rise of Cyrus

Persia and Athens c. 550-500 BCE

For Next Class:

READ: Herodotus selections from books 2-3, 5-7

Example of how to break up next week’s reading

Tuesday 10/16 Read Herodotus Histories selections from books 2 and 3 (14 pages, 30 – 40 minutes)

Thursday 10/18 Read Herodotus Histories selections from book 5 (16 pages, 30 – 40 minutes)

Friday 10/19 Read Herodotus Histories selections from books 6 and 7 (8 pages, 20 – 25 minutes)

Monday 10/22 Review your reading guide before class so you’re ready for discussion (15 minutes)

Unit 2: What was history to the first historians? Comparing Herodotus and Thucydides

Discuss Herodotus 1.1-5

Why did Herodotus write his Histories, according to his own introduction?

How did Persian chroniclers explain the origins of conflict between Greeks and easterners?

What does he think of their explanation and how will his approach towards determining the cause of conflict be different?

1 6

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1 2

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L A T E B R O N Z E A G E c. 1600 – 1100 BCE

I R O N A G E c. 1100 - 800 BCE

A R C H A I C P E R I O D c. 800 - 480 BCE

CLASSICAL PERIOD c. 480 - 323 BCE

HELLENISTIC PERIOD c. 323 - 31 BCE

ROMAN PERIOD c. 31 BCE - ?

Greek alphabet invented between

c. 800-750 BCE

Shaft burials at Mycenae

c. 1650 – 1400 BCE Palaces on Greek

mainland c. 1400 - 1200 BCE

Palaces at Mycenae and Pylos

abandoned c. 1200 BCE

Burial of Tutankhamun of

Egypt c. 1336-1327 BCE

Persian Wars 490-479 BCE

(Spartan 300, etc.)

Hattusha abandoned c. 1200 BCE

Parthenon built 447 - 431 BCE

Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta

431 – 404 BCE

Advent of Athenian democracy

507 BCE

Alexander the Great Dies

323 BCE

Cyrus the Great King of Persian

Empire c. 559-531 BCE

Ramesses III Of Egypt brags of

repulsing “Sea Peoples” in c. 1184

BCE

Cleopatra of Egypt dies

30 BCEHannibal of Carthage invades Italy, fights

Romans 219 - 204 BCE

Romans sack Corinth and Carthage

146 BCE

Julius Caesar assassinated

44 BCE

Unit 2: What was History to the first Historians? Pertinent evidence dates from c. 550 - 400 BCE

When are we? Unit 2 in relation to some famous ancient people and events

Herodotus writes c. 460 – 425 BCE

Thucydides writes c. 410-400 BCE

Halicarnassus

Samos

Athens

Herodotus of Halicarnassus, lived c. 480 – 420 BCE (portrait dates to the Roman period)

Sardis

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C L A S S I C A L P E R I O D c. 480 - 323 BCE

Persian Wars 490-479 BCE

(Spartan 300, etc.)

Parthenon built 447 - 431 BCE

Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta

431-404 BCE

Advent of Athenian democracy

507 BCE

Cyrus the Great King of Persian Empire

c. 559-531 BCE

Herodotus writes between c. 460 – 425 BCE

Thucydides writes c. 410-400 BCE

Croesus king of Lydia c. 560-546 BCE

Cambyses King of Persian Emp.

c. 531-522 BCE

Darius I King of Persian Empire

c. 521-486 BCE

Xerxes I King of Persian Empire

c.485-465 BCE

Artaxerxes I King of Persian Empire

c. 464-424 BCE

Darius II King of Persian Empire

c. 423-405 BCE

L A T E A R C H A I C P E R I O D c. 600 - 480 BCE

Nabonidus king of Babylon c. 555-539 BCE

Unit 2: What was History to the First Historians? Timeline

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L A T E A R C H A I C P E R I O D c. 600 - 480 BCE

C L A S S I C A L P E R I O D c. 480 - 323 BCE

Unit 2: What was History to the First Historians? Timeline

Croesus king of Lydia c. 560-546 BCE

Herodotus writes between c. 460 – 425 BCE

LESBOS

Gordion

(Now under Lydian rule)

Miletus

LYCIA

CILICIA

Anatolian political geography, c. 600-546 BCE

Troy/Ilion

Sardis

(capital of Lydia)

Herodotus identifies Croesus, king of Lydia from c. 560-546 BCE as the first eastern king he “knows for a fact” harmed the Greeks.

LESBOS

Gordion

(Now under Lydian rule)

Miletus

LYCIA

CILICIA

Anatolian political geography, c. 600-546 BCE

Troy/Ilion

Sardis

(capital of Lydia)

Herodotus identifies Croesus, king of Lydia from c. 560-546 BCE as the first eastern king he “knows for a fact” harmed the Greeks. And then he goes off on a digression about how Croesus’ ancestor Gyges became king of Lydia around 680 BCE.

Review Herodotus’ account of the downfall of Candaules and the rise of Gyges as king of Lydia.

Then discuss how well it fits with the typical Greek tragic plot arc:

A “Tragic hero” who is doing well and proud of something they have achieved, something they own, their family, etc.

The Tragic hero makes plans relating to whatever it is they are proud of

The Tragic hero is often warned that their plan will go badly

The Tragic hero remains confident and doesn’t notice or dismisses the warnings

The Tragic hero often realizes their mistake, but it’s too late, something horrible happens to them (or has already happened), usually involving their death or death/loss of whatever it is they are proud of. The gods are usually involved in their undoing.

Review Herodotus’ account of king Croesus of Lydia, break it down into parts:

Solon’s visit

His concern over the fate of his son Atys, and the ensuing fate of Atys

His preparations for war against Cyrus of Persia (and any advice he gets)

The fall of Sardis and how he was spared from death, twice

Review Herodotus’ account of king Croesus of Lydia

Then discuss how well it fits with the typical Greek tragic plot arc:

A “Tragic hero” who is doing well and proud of something they have achieved, something they own, their family, etc.

The Tragic hero makes plans relating to whatever it is they are proud of

The Tragic hero is often warned that their plan will go badly

The Tragic hero remains confident and doesn’t notice or dismisses the warnings

Lydian gold coin from the time of Croesus, c. 550 BCE

Lydia was so rich that coinage was invented there

Foundations of Lydian royal palace, c. 600 – 550 BCE

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

According to Herodotus Cyrus campaigned against king Croesus of Lydia in 547-546 BCE

Sardis, Turkey, capital of king Croesus of Lydia

Fortifications, 7th- 6th century BCE

Gate

Wall

Greek vase showing king Croesus of Lydia on the pyre, c. 480-450 BCE

Lydian gold coin from the time of Croesus, c. 550 BCE

Lydia was so rich that coinage was invented there

Review Herodotus’ account of the downfall of Astyages, be sure to discuss:

Why Astyages was so afraid of his daughter Mandane marrying a noble and having children

What he tried to do with baby Cyrus and why it didn’t work

His treatment of Harpagus

The ultimate fate of his kingdom and himself

Review Herodotus’ account of the downfall of Astyages

Then discuss how well it fits with the typical Greek tragic plot arc:

A “Tragic hero” who is doing well and proud of something they have achieved, something they own, their family, etc.

The Tragic hero makes plans relating to whatever it is they are proud of

The Tragic hero is often warned that their plan will go badly

The Tragic hero remains confident and doesn’t notice or dismisses the warnings

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

According to Herdotous, Cyrus overthrew Astyages of Media sometime around 550 BCE, shortly before Cyrus overthrew Croesus of Lydia in 547 - 546 BCE

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

Discuss the stories of Candaules, Croesus, and Astyages in relation to this quote from the beginning of Herodotus Histories:

Many that were great in the past have become small, and many that used to be small have become great in my lifetime, so I will mention both alike because I know very well that human prosperity never remains in the same place.

Herodotus, Histories 1.5

Features of Greek Tragedy:

A “Tragic hero” who is doing well and proud of something they have achieved, something they have, their family, etc.

The Tragic hero makes plans relating to whatever it is they are proud of

The Tragic hero is often warned that their plan will go badly

The Tragic hero remains confident and doesn’t notice or dismisses the warnings

Amphora (wine jar), made in Athens showing king Croesus of Lydia on the pyre,

c. 480-450 BCE

Krater (wine bowl), made in Athens, Athena, Achilles, and Hector, c. 480 – 460 BCE

Athens

Sparta

Delphi, site of the oracle of Apollo

Delphi

Sardis

Tegea

Delphi, site of the oracle of ApolloBecause they were always being beaten in battle by the Tegeans, the Spartans sent ambassadors to Delphi to ask which god they should propitiate (satisfy) so that they could get the upper hand. The priestess (i.e., the oracle) answered that they were to bring home the bones of Agamemnon’s son.

Herodotus, Histories 1.67

When the Spartans can’t find said bones, they ask the oracle where to find them and get in reply:

Where two winds are blown by mighty force, where beat responds to beat and pain is heaped on pain.

Herodotus, Histories 1.67

Review how king Meles, first king of Sardis was instructed to make his city invincible and what he neglected to do.

The acropolis of Sardis

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C L A S S I C A L P E R I O D c. 480 - 323 BCE

Persian Wars 490-479 BCE

(Spartan 300, etc.)

Parthenon built 447 - 431 BCE

Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta

431-404 BCE

Advent of Athenian democracy

507 BCE

Cyrus the Great King of Persian Empire

c. 559-531 BCE

Herodotus writes between c. 460 – 425 BCE

Thucydides writes c. 410-400 BCE

Croesus king of Lydia c. 560-546 BCE

Cambyses King of Persian Emp.

c. 531-522 BCE

Darius I King of Persian Empire

c. 521-486 BCE

Xerxes I King of Persian Empire

c.485-465 BCE

Artaxerxes I King of Persian Empire

c. 464-424 BCE

Darius II King of Persian Empire

c. 423-405 BCE

L A T E A R C H A I C P E R I O D c. 600 - 480 BCE

Nabonidus king of Babylon c. 555-539 BCE

Unit 2: What was History to the First Historians? Timeline

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

According to Herdotous, Cyrus overthrew Astyages of Media sometime around 550 BCE, shortly before Cyrus overthrew Croesus of Lydia in 547-546 BCE

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

The Babylonian Chronicle of Nabonidus, entry for year 6 of Nabonidus (550-549 BCE) records that:

Ishtumegu (Astyages) called up his army and marched against Cyrus, king of Anshan (Persia), in order to meet him in battle. The army of Ishtumegu (Astyages) revolted against him and in fetters they delivered him to Cyrus.

Translation by Pritchett 1969

Herodotus 1.127:

When Astyages (Ishtumegu) heard that (Cyrus was approaching) he put all the Medes under arms and because he was living in a delusion, appointed Harpagus general, forgetting what he had done to him. When the Medes marched against the Persians…some of the Medes who were not in on the conspiracy fought others deserted to the Persians, and most put up a token resistance and then ran away.

Herodotus 1.129:

After Astyages (Ishtumegu) had become a prisoner of war…

The Babylonian Chronicle of Nabonidus, entry for year 6 of Nabonidus (550-549 BCE) records that:

Translation by Pritchett 1969

Herodotus 1.127:

Herodotus 1.129:

After Astyages (Ishtumegu) had become a prisoner of war…

The Babylonian Chronicle of Nabonidus, entry for year 6 of Nabonidus (550-549 BCE) records that:

Translation by Pritchett 1969

The Babylonian chronicle of Nabonidus, entry for year 9 of Nabonidus (547-546 BCE) records that:

…Cyrus, king of Persia, called up his army and crossed the Tigris below the town of Arbela…he marched against the land of (text is broken) and killed its king, took his possessions, put a garrison of his own there.

Translation by Pritchett 1969

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

According to Herdotous, Cyrus overthrew Astyages of Media sometime around 550 BCE, shortly before Cyrus overthrew Croesus of Lydia in 546 BCE.

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

Foundations of Lydian royal palace, c. 600 – 550 BCE

Sardis, Turkey, capital of king Croesus of Lydia

Fortifications, 7th- 6th century BCE

Gate

Wall

The Persian destruction level at the Lydian capital of Sardis, Turkey c. 547-546 BCE

House in the Persian destruction level at the Lydian capital of Sardis, Turkey c. 547-546 BCE

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

According to Herodotus Cyrus campaigned against king Croesus of Lydia in 547-546 BCE

Troy/Ilion

LESBOS

LYDIA

P H R Y G I A

Gordion

(Phrygian capital)

Miletus

LYCIA

CILICIA

Anatolian political geography in the 9th – 8th centuries BCE

Sardis

(capital of Lydia)

LESBOS

Gordion

(Now under Lydian rule)

Miletus

LYCIA

CILICIA

Anatolian political geography, c. 600-546 BCE (i.e., during Croesus’ lifetime)

Troy/Ilion

Sardis

(capital of Lydia)

The Citadel of Gordion, capital of Phrygia, 9th century BCE

Gordion was once capital of Phrygia, but by the middle of the 6th century BCE it was under Lydian rule.

Gateway to the Citadel of Gordion

Küçük Höyük (little mound) fortress and siege ramp, Gordion, Turkey, mid 6th century BCE

Siege ramp

Fortress

Küçük Höyük fortress, Gordion attacked, burned, and filled in the mid 6th century BCE

Küçük Höyük fortress, Gordion, Turkey

Bronze tri-lobed arrowheads, mid 6th century BCE

Pasargadae, Iran, Cyrus’ capital

Sardis, Turkey

Küçük Höyük fortress, Gordion attacked, burned, and filled in the mid 6th century BCE

Pottery from mid 6th century BCE destruction levels

Küçük Höyük fortress, Gordion House destroyed in the Persian sack of Sardis

Who attacked the Küçük Höyük fortress at Gordion in the mid 6th century BCE?

Midas, king of Gordion (who ruled back in the 8th century BCE) and the Satyr (half goat follower of Dionysus) Silenos, on an Attic vase, c. 470 – 430 BCE

Sardis Athens

GREECE

Babylon

PERSIA (aka ANSHAN)

MEDITERRANEAN SEA

AEGEAN SEA

BLACK SEA

EGYPT

According to Herodotus Cyrus campaigned against

king Croesus of Lydia in 547-546 BCE

Gordion

Mid 6th century BCE destruction level at Sardis

Mid 6th century BCE destruction level at Gordion

The Babylonian chronicle of Nabonidus, entry for year 9 of Nabonidus (547-546 BCE) records that:

Translation by Pritchett 1969

Sardis

Cyrus (ruled c. 559 – 530 BCE) conquered Media, Lydia, and the Neo Babylonian Empire

Cambyses (ruled c. 529 – 522 BCE) conquered Cyprus and Egypt

Pasargadae Cyprus

Egypt

Prisoners led to Darius I on the Behistun/Bisitun relief,Iran, c. 521-486 BCE

Cambyses was murdered in 522 BCE, in the ensuing power struggle Darius I became the next king

Persepolis

Pasargadae

Darius I (ruled 521 – 486 BCE) conquered Libya, Thrace, and part of western India

Libya

Thrace

Western India

Athens

Sparta

Sardis

Pisistratus was sole ruler (tyrant) of Athens from 546-527 BCE

Pisistratus promoted festivals, built temples, built fountainhouses, and sponsored poets during his tyranny from 546 – 527 BCE

Pisistratus passed power on to his sons Hippias and Hipparchus when he died in 527 BCE

Athens

Sparta

Sardis

Hipparchus was killed in 514 BCE, Hippias continued as sole tyrant until he was deposed in 510 BCE

Athens

Sparta

Sardis

A wealthy Athenian named Cleisthenes came to power in 507 BCE by promising reforms

Cleisthenes’ Reforms

Introduced a system of 10 tribes. Each tribe included a group of citizens from the city, a group from inland (the hills), and a group from the coast. By mixing citizens like this, Cleisthenes broke up the old system of regional factions with narrow interests.

Cleisthenes’ Reforms

Established a new boule (council) of 500 members in charge of coming up with legislation. 50 members were selected by lot from each tribe to serve for the year. Each tribe’s contingent of 50 spent one month of the year together in Athens to come up with legislation. Each day, one of those 50 was chosen, by lot, to be president.

Cleisthenes’ Reforms

Assembly of all citizens (who could make it) met 40 times a year on the Pnyx hill in Athens to vote on the boule’s legislation and proposals. The assembly also elected generals to lead military campaigns.

Cleisthenes’ Reforms

Ostracism - Vote held every year (if needed) to exile a citizen who was becoming dangerously influential for a period of ten years

Athenians who lived in Athens/the plains, the hills, and on the coast all had different concerns

For Next Class:

Essay 1 due Wednesday, 10/17 by 5:00 pm on Blackboard!

READ: Herodotus selections from books 2-3, 5-7