For Prof. Ann only

CRJ510 Module 4B Interview Transcript

Narrator: What you are about to see is an actual interview between a police detective and a suspect

accused of having sexual contact with an eight year old female. The suspect was a trusted friend of the

family and supposedly touched the child on her private parts while her sisters were present in the room

and her parents were away from the residence. All three children have been clinically diagnosed with

numerous personality disorders and are regularly medicated. Pay close attention to how the detective

asks his questions. More particularly, listen to what the suspect says, what he doesn’t say, and what he

offers to the detective that was not known previously. Following the recording, review your notes and

determine how this suspect might fit in to any one of the many typologies we are studying in class.

Douglas Orr: You walked down here?

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: I’ve got your full name as Matt… is it McBee or Macabee?

Suspect: Macabee

Douglas Orr: Macabee. Ok. Mathew Evan Macabee?

Suspect: Mhmm.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Um. Again, uh, you are not under arrest.

Suspect: Mhmm

Douglas Orr: This is just a preliminary exploration to talk with you. I’ve invited you down here. You’ve

come down here of your own free will. Even though we’re in a closed room I want you to understand

that you are free to go at any time. If you just say, “hey detective I just want to leave” I’ll walk you out.

You’re not obligated to be here. I’m not holding you here, so that being said… and it’s ok that I record

the conversation, is that correct?

Suspect: Mhmm

Douglas Orr: Ok. Today is the third of June

Suspect: 2008

Douglas Orr: 2008. And it’s about 3:35? And you walked down here. What’s your current address, Matt?

Suspect: 1814… give me a minute.

Douglas Orr: 1814 West Shar?

Suspect: Yep.

Douglas Orr: And where are you employed?

Suspect: I’m not.

Douglas Orr: Ok. How long have you been between jobs?

Suspect: A while.

Douglas Orr: Ok.

Suspect: But, my wife has SSI so…

Douglas Orr: Ok. So she’s on disability?

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: Do you have any kids?

Suspect: No

Douglas Orr: Um… and again, you’re not under arrest, but I want you to understand… if you’ve watched

any TV you see the people read people rights? Ok. Again, you’re not in custody, but I do want you to

understand your rights… you’re talking to a police officer, you’re talking to him in a closed room. You’re

at a police station. So let me read these to you right quick. I’m Detective Douglas Orr, police officer. You

have the right to remain silent. Anything you can and will… anything you say can and will be used… I

don’t have my glasses on! …against you in a court of law… uh, that doesn’t apply… uh, that’s for juvenile.

You have the right to talk to an attorney before answering any questions. You have the right to have

your attorney with you, present during any questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be

appointed for you without cost. Do you understand these rights?

Suspect: Yes

Douglas Orr: If you do, go ahead and write the word yes there. And, the next sentence there. We talked

on the phone about the babysitting job. Tell me a little bit more about that. You said something on the

phone…

Suspect: I was lying on the couch and… I hate to say it but I had pee hard, you know half erection from

needing to go to the bathroom. And the girls were over me and just trying to pull me and talk me into

playing games or getting up or doing something with them. And um… one had my arm, one had my leg,

and the one in the middle was grabbing on my crotch.

Douglas Orr: Which girls were these, do you know?

Suspect: Um… Lord… this is how important it was to me. I tried to put it out of my mind entirely…

because… I’m just not that comfortable thinking about it. The oldest one is Faith, the… these two I keep

getting mixed up. It’s Faith, Trinity and Patience. I think Patience is the youngest, but Trinity’s the

smallest. That’s why I keep getting those two confused. But, I think Faith was on my arm, Patience was

on my leg, and Trinity was… on my privates. So…

Douglas Orr: When you say she was on your privates, what do you mean by that?

Suspect: Um, may I use your ankle as an example?

Douglas Orr: Sure.

Suspect: Ok. She was… say this was my half erection alright. She was grabbing me like going like this.

Douglas Orr: On your pants?

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: Well, did you have your pants off or…?

Suspect: No! I had my pants and underwear on. I was fully clothed with shoes.

Douglas Orr: What about the girls, did they have their…

Suspect: Wait a minute, no. I did not have my shoes on. I’m sorry. I misspoke. I did not have my shoes on

because… please take your shoes off when you come in my house. Um, the girls were all dressed,

everybody was fully clothed.

Douglas Orr: Ok. And how long did Trinity do the… the penis thing?

Suspect: Until I asked her to stop.

Douglas Orr: On the phone you said… what was it you said about if you…

Suspect: Oh, if you grab mine I’ll grab yours and she stopped.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Did you ever, at any time, touch her private area?

Suspect: Um, no I came close when I put her diaper on, but that’s putting a diaper on. You’re supposed

to get close.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Let’s talk about that for a second, so that we don’t misunderstand. You perform those

hygienic functions?

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: For Trinity?

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: Um, she’s six years old?

Suspect: I think so.

Douglas Orr: And, so she’s still in diapers?

Suspect: She had a kidney operation, and it affected her bladder and bowels, so she had to be placed in

diapers. Because she was on these super-duper bowel laxatives and she occasionally went… excreted

feces when she was sleeping so yeah, she had to have diapers.

Douglas Orr: Is this something you and Sheera talked about?

Suspect: What, the putting her in diapers before bed? Yes.

Douglas Orr: So Sheera knows about all that?

Suspect: Mmhmm

Douglas Orr: Ok. Um, as you’re lying there on the couch, what were you guys doing?

Suspect: They were trying to encourage me to get up and play a game or something with them.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Who was in the room now?

Suspect: All three of the girls and me.

Douglas Orr: Alright. Um… and, as you’re lying on the couch, who were you lying with on the couch

initially?

Suspect: Nobody.

Douglas Orr: Was there ever a time where the other girl… either of the other girls were lying with you

on the couch?

Suspect: All three of them at one time or another.

Douglas Orr: Ok.

Suspect: And I kept… tried to keep my hands above the belt line, below the panty line, or to the sides.

Douglas Orr: When you say you tried, was there ever an occasion where you think it might have been…

Suspect: Trinity occasionally tried to put my hand on her privates, but I kept moving it back.

Douglas Orr: Ok. When she put it over on her privates, what did you do while your hand was there?

Suspect: Just slid it straight back.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Was there ever a time where uh… What was she wearing that evening?

Suspect: T-shirt, pants and underwear, I think.

Douglas Orr: Ok, what kind of pants, do you remember?

Suspect: Um, stretchy pants I think.

Douglas Orr: Stretchy pants?

Suspect: Yeah, stretchy pants.

Douglas Orr: Ok. And she was wearing underwear?

Suspect: …as far as I know, yeah. Because when she took her bath I saw underwear on the floor… so,

yeah.

Douglas Orr: And at what point in the evening did you bathe her?

Suspect: I didn’t bathe her, she bathed herself. But I shuffled the girls up one at a time to the bathroom

to take their baths, so.

Douglas Orr: Was there ever a time where you…

Suspect: I checked in on them while they were bathing…

Douglas Orr: You know what I’m trying to ask you…

Suspect: Because I mean, it’s just the responsible thing to do. You always check on anybody young to

make sure they don’t… face down… its tough.

Douglas Orr: Right. Was there ever a time when you had any kind of contact with them while they were

in the tub?

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: Is there any reason why the girls would say that you did?

Suspect: I… don’t… see how… cause I…

Douglas Orr: Let me… you went in to check on them

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: Is there a time where you sat down with them and talked with them while they were in the

tub?

Suspect: No. I just peeked my head in and, ya know

Douglas Orr: So you didn’t ever…

Suspect: Are you dead?

Douglas Orr: Did you ever go in? Sit down?

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Um… On the couch, was there ever a time… you say you were playing with Trinity, she

would take your hand and put it…

Suspect: No! We were lying on the couch.

Douglas Orr: Lying on the couch?

Suspect: And I’d laid on the couch with all three of them at one time or another, usually two or three…

all three of them sometimes together. If I remember right when Sheera came home I had one draped

over my lap and the other two boxing me in. (laughs)

Douglas Orr: With Trinity, you remarked that she… she grabbed your hand and put it on her private.

Why do you think she did that?

Suspect: Um… She said she wanted to touch butts or buddies or something like that and I said no. I don’t

want to. You’re too young.

Douglas Orr: Was there ever a time that… you said she had stretchy pants on… was there ever a time

where your hand may have gone below those pants? Inside of the pants?

Suspect: Well, maybe a pinky inside the lining itself on the side or… yeah on the side… but never… I try

to keep away from that area with that age. Unless I am cleaning up.

Douglas Orr: So how many times did you… how many times were you performing hygienic functions

with her that evening?

Suspect: Once.

Douglas Orr: Once.

Suspect: And that was just to put her diaper on and put her to bed.

Douglas Orr: Did you clean her off at all?

Suspect: No. She was already clean.

Douglas Orr: And who performed that?

Suspect: She did.

Douglas Orr: So she cleaned herself off?

Suspect: Yeah. Yeah, she would clean herself off, it’s just she needed to be put in the diapers.

Douglas Orr: I see. And did any of the other girls need that function?

Suspect: No. The first time I babysat for them, Faith peed her pants a couple times and needed to be put

in the tub. And Faith’s uh… Faith’s a little streaker. (laughs)

Douglas Orr: Streaker?

Suspect: Streaker. (laughs)

Douglas Orr: Runs around naked? How old is she?

Suspect: Um… eight I think.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Well, here’s what the girls allege. Trinity alleges that um… your hand went inside of her

pants…

Suspect: Mmhmm

Douglas Orr: Um, touched her on her private area…

Suspect: Mmhmm

Douglas Orr: And, uh, why would she say something like that?

Suspect: Um, she mentioned to the boy next door, can’t touch buddies anymore in my presence,

without an adult present so…

Douglas Orr: Wait a minute, why would she say that you…

Suspect: That I did it?

Douglas Orr: ‘Cause she acknowledges that she um… she did it to you. She says that she reached down

inside your pants and touched you.

Suspect: No. She did not.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Um. And the other girl, Patience disclosed to me that she watched you touch Trinity.

Suspect: I don’t know.

Douglas Orr: And that she watched Trinity put her hand down inside your pants.

Suspect: I don’t know. Honest to God I don’t know. I’m nervous enough but I don’t know why. Honestly.

Douglas Orr: Don’t know why what?

Suspect: Why they would. Maybe because they saw…

Douglas Orr: How could they misunderstand that?

Suspect: They might have… she might have done it with someone else and they might have mistaken me

for somebody else.

Douglas Orr: Well I mean they’ve identified you though. I mean they…

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: Matt, you know… the guy who’s babysitting us.

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: Um… is it something that, I mean…

Suspect: If… I mean, I’ve been away for a month and a half helping my parents fix their trailer from the

December storm damage, and before I left I called Sheera and… Actually I babysat for Sheera right

before I left, babysat for the girls. And… when I came back I even called her and said hey, I’m back, ready

to babysit again if you need me. So… if she suspected anything she could have just brought it to me, and

I could have talked to her about it. But, I don’t know.

Douglas Orr: Well you understand that… understand her caution…

Suspect: Oh yeah! Yes, yes, I understand.

Douglas Orr: … protecting her children, I mean…

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: Um… again

Suspect: I completely understand that. I know from your point of view it looks like I’m guilty. Right?

Douglas Orr: Well, guilty of what though? That’s what I’m trying to… I’m trying to figure out… If Trinity

says that you put her hands down her pants, you say to a certain degree your pinky went inside of her

pants.

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: Is it possible that, in the position you were in that you may have touched her on the vagina

but you’re not quite sure just because you didn’t see it?

Suspect: That is a possibility but I don’t know. I don’t believe I touched her vagina.

Douglas Orr: How could it have been misunderstood I mean how could you have touched her vagina

without you knowing, I mean, is there a position that you were in that maybe…?

Suspect: Ok… I was lying on the couch like this and… Trinity was next to me like this.

Douglas Orr: What side of the couch was she? Was the back of the couch …?

Suspect: The back of the couch was here, she was on the other side and I was basically about this far

over the edge and my arm was around her and she kept trying to… move my hand…

Douglas Orr: Over top of her… vagina?

Suspect: Yeah.

Douglas Orr: Ok.

Suspect: Let’s touch buddies… No! I don’t touch buddies with a girl that age.

Douglas Orr: But your hand was inside of her…

Suspect: Pinky.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Is it possible that your pinky touched her vagina?

Suspect: Like I said, it’s possible but completely unintentionally. If it happened… I mean, like I said I try

to just put that out of my mind because I don’t like little girls. I like women. Big-breasted women as a

matter of fact.

Douglas Orr: It was… with Patience saying, what she saw is it possibly what she saw?

Suspect: Possibly, yes.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Um, with the fact that she says that Trinity touched you… um, is there a…

Suspect: She tried to, but I kept moving her hand away too.

Douglas Orr: But I mean, for her getting her hand down inside of your pants…

Suspect: She kept trying but I kept…

Douglas Orr: Is it possible she broke that plane so that Patience would have seen that? I mean, to get

her hand…

Suspect: She got it a little ways in there but I kept pulling her hand away.

Douglas Orr: How far do you think it got in?

Suspect: About here.

Douglas Orr: So that’s probably what Patience saw?

Suspect: Probably. I mean, I don’t want them touching me like that. I don’t want to touch them like that.

Honest.

Douglas Orr: Um… Well you see what position I’m in. I’m… trying to get facts and…

Suspect: Oh yeah! Trying to get facts… trying to get as much information as possible…

Douglas Orr: If you were in my position how would you investigate something like this?

Suspect: Um… ok… step back… I’m trying to take myself out of my position right now (laughs)… so give

me a minute um… step back… credibility of witnesses… um… viability of the story… possibility of the

viability of the story… um… and… try to determine if there’s enough evidence to proceed further or if

its… how could I say, not prosecutable? I mean, that’s just…

Douglas Orr: What kind of evidence do we have here in this case?

Suspect: The words from two girls… um… ok… stepping back again… trying to… I’m sorry but… little

room; you get nervous no matter what.

Douglas Orr: Sure.

Suspect: Um… story from two girls… stating that… um… misappropriate touching… that’s what they’re

stating right? Ok. Um… they’re both disabled… ADD… ADHD possible too… um… both autistic in some

form of degree… and, on the flip side you got a guy trying to keep his ass out of jail. (laughs)

Douglas Orr: What do you think about someone… let’s say the girls uh… are credible. Let’s assume for a

second they’re credible, and let’s assume that they’re talking about somebody else and not you. What

would happen… what kind of a person would do something like that?

Suspect: What kind of person?

Douglas Orr: Now are we talking about… are we talking about a guy who is a… hunts down little girls or

are we talking about somebody who might have been curious… maybe someone who made a mistake…

someone who is… didn’t have a lot of discretion…

Suspect: Led down the wrong road?

Douglas Orr: Led down the wrong road…

Suspect: Probably both types.

Douglas Orr: Ok. In some degree, in this particular situation, do you think that maybe you were led

down the wrong road?

Suspect: Tried to be led down the wrong road, yeah. Possibility.

Douglas Orr: Ok. Is there enough there that maybe, you know the girls could have perceived it as being

inappropriate?

Suspect: Yeah, there is enough there to perceive it.

Douglas Orr: And what would have given them that idea?

Suspect: Um, pinky, her trying to put her hands down my pants too, so…

Douglas Orr: Do you think you got a little carried away?

Suspect: Um… on Trinity’s part a little bit, yeah.

Douglas Orr: In what way?

Suspect: Um, she kept trying. I think she was the one that was more curious than anything… see what it

felt like maybe…

Douglas Orr: What felt?

Suspect: Um… what somebody else’s hand might feel like

Douglas Orr: What did it feel like to her you think? Did she like it or…?

Suspect: I didn’t let it go on that far to see if she liked it or not… I tried not to… so…

Douglas Orr: Is it… you think it’s something that… maybe on both parts there was an indiscretion?

Suspect: Um… she’s how old did you say? Six? And she’s mentally disabled, so there was no indiscretion

on her part. She’s curious… she’s maybe starting to feel her oats a little bit earlier than most. On my part

the only indiscretion I could see is me lying on the couch with her…

Douglas Orr: Well if you’re touching.

Suspect: Well, hip and, like I said I had my pinky down the side…

Douglas Orr: Did you try to touch her vagina?

Suspect: Maybe. I might have, yes. But, it was for like…

Douglas Orr: Just over top of it?

Suspect: Yeah just… quickly over the top of it, and… maybe moved it away, yeah. I don’t remember. I

definitely didn’t go out to…

Douglas Orr: How did you know that it was…

Suspect: I don’t know. Like I said, maybe. I might have. I didn’t…

Douglas Orr: Well she remarked about it, didn’t she? I mean she said… you know, you touched my

vagina?

Suspect: Ok, she remarked on it. I…

Douglas Orr: What’d she say?

Suspect: I don’t know, what did she say? (laughs)

Douglas Orr: Didn’t she remark to you about it?

Suspect: No. She didn’t remark to me about it.

Douglas Orr: I thought you said she… you wanna touch… wanna touch… what’d you call it?

Suspect: Buddies or butts or something like that. She kept wanting to, I didn’t want to. I didn’t. Like I

said, I might have… ok, say this is her vagina… I might have glanced over it with my bare pinky… but I

don’t remember doing it… I didn’t want to do it. I didn’t set out to do it. So…

Douglas Orr: Something just happened…

Suspect: If it did, it was accidental and not my intention.

Douglas Orr: Well, let’s say, you know, we got the big bad Chester the Child Molester over here and

we’ve got a person over here that’s just curious and made a mistake, an indiscretion. What do you think

should happen to that guy, who makes a mistake and is just curious and…

Suspect: Um…

Douglas Orr: You’re in the judge’s spot, what do you think should happen to that guy?

Suspect: I don’t know. It depends on what type of person he is… a psych eval and that type of stuff to

see if there’s…

Douglas Orr: At the end of the day the guys says man I made a mistake. I shouldn’t have done that… you

know, I’m not a murderer, I’m not a bank robber. Simple exploration here on the couch… shouldn’t have

done it… what do you think a guy like that should get?

Suspect: I don’t know. Like I said, I’m not a judge.

Douglas Orr: I mean I’m just saying, make believe for a second that you’re the judge, what would give a

guy like that?

Suspect: Five… ten years’ probation… if he even slipped up a little bit sexually then just nail him to the

wall.

Douglas Orr: Ok but no jail initially?

Suspect: I don’t know.

Douglas Orr: Um, the other girls, Patience and Faith. Would they have any reason to say that you

touched them?

Suspect: Um, I cleaned off Faith’s privates when she wet herself the first time I babysat, but that was

with a wash rag and put her clean panties on and sent her back to bed.

Douglas Orr: How about Patience?

Suspect: Um… no.

Douglas Orr: Did Patience ever grab at your erection?

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: Did Faith ever grab at your erection?

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: So just Trinity?

Suspect: Just Trinity.

Douglas Orr: How many times do you think you had that erection around the kids, maybe seven, eight

times? How many times you think you did it?

Suspect: Um… twice and they were usually instigated by having to urinate.

Douglas Orr: Any other time that Trinity was playing with you and remarked about it being big and?

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: She never remarked about its size anyway, so.

Suspect: Ok.

Douglas Orr: Well what I’m saying is, was there ever a time where you didn’t have to urinate that there

was a half erection or something that…

Suspect: No.

Douglas Orr: The two times there was an erection that, you know of…

Suspect: That, I mean, I babysat for them for what three times and, yeah, two or three times… but like I

said, the girls never instigated it. It was always having to urinate. Or just waking up early in the morning

and… I mean hello soldier always salutes you in the morning. Doesn’t yours? (laughs)

Douglas Orr: I don’t generally discuss that with people. (laughs) Typically, medically speaking that’s not

uncommon, not unheard of. In the setting that you were in… having an erection and a child grabbing the

erection…

Suspect: I know its suspicious looking, but like I said it’s brought on by having to urinate. I was

comfortable, I didn’t want to get up so I got a half-stock to… the body’s response is to get an erection to

stop the flow of… ok… you get an erection, urethra gets closed off, vesicular things open up. You don’t

have an erection, urethra opens up, vesicular canals close up. I mean, that’s the medical explanation of

it.

Douglas Orr: Sure. Um… do you think the erection was…

Suspect: Brought on by the girls themselves? No.

Douglas Orr: Was it exacerbated by uh… Trinity grabbing at it, you think?

Suspect: Well, somebody grabs your crotch when you have a half boner it’s… usually yeah. But, I said…

like I said, you want me to grab yours? And she was like oh! I was like no. (laughs) Just let me go and…

went to the bathroom, took a leak, came back out, no more erection. Go figure.

Douglas Orr: Is there anything else that I didn’t ask you about that you thought I was going to ask you

about?

Suspect: Um… ok… taking myself out of myself again… um… the only other questions I could see you

asking me is did you ejaculate when… if she touched you? Which would have been no, because she

never… I never gave her opportunity to create enough friction to ever come close, so no. Um… did you

insert anything in her? Which would again be no. That’d be…

Douglas Orr: With the crime people going over that, would there be any evidence of your semen

anywhere there?

Suspect: Maybe on a tissue in the toilet in the… wastewater reclamation plant, but that’d be about it.

Douglas Orr: So, where did you masturbate there, in the house?

Suspect: Um, on the couch while watching… it was either HBO or a skinamax late at night, on demand.

After the girls had gone to bed, after the girls had been asleep for a couple hours. So, I definitely didn’t

want them seeing that, and if they walked in on me I didn’t know. But I didn’t… no… no. There shouldn’t

be any sign of my semen anywhere in that house.

Douglas Orr: You used a tissue?

Suspect: Yes.

Douglas Orr: Is there anything else that you haven’t told me about that I didn’t ask you about that you

can think of?

Suspect: I’ve babysat for them three times, um… twice overnight, once during the day and that was the

only day that she even wanted to try to touch butts, or touch buddies or whatever she calls it.

Douglas Orr: How many other occasions was there masturbation?

Suspect: In their home? Just the first night I was there, again, after the girls had been in bed, after they’d

been asleep for a couple hours, again in a tissue, again TV. Wait, no… no, I’m wrong. The first night I

spent the night, Patience wanted to sleep on the couch so no opportunity for masturbation that night,

that’s right. I’m sorry. I was wrong. I was wrong. No masturbation the first night I babysat because

Patience was in the room and I wasn’t about to whip it out with a child in the room.

Douglas Orr: So it was the second and third occasions you masturbated?

Suspect: No. Second occasion only because the third occasion it wasn’t an overnight. The third occasion

was just a few hours after so Sheera and Damion could go visit, I think it was one of Damion’s friends.

Shoot off some guns, some paint balls.

Douglas Orr: Well what I’m going to do is, I’ve got to interview Faith still and then I’ll get back with you.

Suspect: Ok.

Douglas Orr: About what I’ve come to learn, ok?

Suspect: Ok.

Douglas Orr: Um, is there anything that I should know about? I mean, take the children here when they

say things like this, are they lying about this incident?

Suspect: Um, they’re mistaken, yeah.

Douglas Orr: What are they mistaken about?

Suspect: Um, how much touching was going on maybe, but, like I said, I might have just grazed over her

bare vagina but it was a. unintentional; b. I didn’t want to and c. completely, totally unintentional. I

don’t want to touch children that way. I mean, I barely want to touch… 16 year olds yes but, some of

them are just like… woof. And it’s like aww… boo hoo they’re not 18. They’re cry-worthy, they’re not

jail-worthy.

Douglas Orr: And, in that particular instance, what 16 year olds have turned you on?

Suspect: Britney Spears, Christina Aguilara, Lindsey Lohan (laughs).

Douglas Orr: Well they’re obviously up in… I’m talking about the 16 year olds.

Suspect: Like I said Britney Spears, Christina Aguilara, Lindsey Lohan.

Douglas Orr: When they were 16?

Suspect: Yeah. When they first started, like… ooohhh, they’re not legal, and then the day they turn you

go whoo hoo!

Douglas Orr: Ok, let me talk with Faith and then I’ll get back with you. It probably won’t be for a while.

I’m in no hurry.

Suspect: Ok

Douglas Orr: But I’ll give you a call.

Suspect: Ok.

Douglas Orr: I’ll walk you out.

Suspect: I might not be home. My wife just got an inheritance, we just bought a car yesterday and we’re

planning on… we’ve been planning… this isn’t just me coming up with it today. Because if I wanted to, I

could be gone right now.

Douglas Orr: What do you mean gone?

Suspect: I mean, out of the state gone. If I had any true worries about jail time… I mean, I’m just telling

you this now. But, me and my wife plan on going to Mount St. Helen, Mount Rainer, visit my family, visit

her family, visit one of my friends in Portland for a couple weeks at the end of this month so I might not

be home if you try calling me. But I will be home next month.

Douglas Orr: Wait right here. Let me just step out here for a second. Be right back.

Suspect: I will be home next month though.