From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Subject: Re: [lds] Gordon's Objections
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science
Lines: 38

In article <C5rp8K.Kw2@acsu.buffalo.edu> psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:
>Gordon Banks quoted and added...
>
>gb> In article <C53L1s.D61@acsu.buffalo.edu>
>gb>  psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:
>gb>
>gb> >The Mormon Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. That Jesus is God
>gb> >the Father's first born spirit child. That Jesus was begotten on earth
>gb> >through natural means, not by the Holy Ghost. That He sweat His blood
>gb> >for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane. That His blood cannot
>gb> >cleanse from all sin. That He is now among many millions of other
>gb> >gods. That Jesus is Jehovah and the Father is Elohim (in the OT
>gb> >Jehovah and Elohim are the same). That He needed to be saved.
>gb>


It is true that Mormons believe that all spirits (including Jesus,
Lucifer, Robert Weiss) are in the same family.  It does not mean
that Jesus was created, but rather that Lucifer and Robert Weiss
were not.  I agree that this is a "heresy".  So what?  
The sweating of blood in Gethsemene is
not a basic Mormon doctrine.  Jesus did not perform the atonement
in Getheseme alone, as some anti-Mormons are trying to teach.  
As far as the "unpardonable sin" whatever that is, it is Biblical,
and not specifically Mormon.  It is also called the sin against
the Holy Ghost.  Most Bible scholars (other than conservative
ones) do not believe Jehovah and Elohim were always the same.
I'm sure you've heard of the J and the E texts?  I don't
know what you mean by "That He needed to be saved".  Jesus?
Jehovah?  Elohim?  In Mormon doctrine, Jesus was sinless,
and thus did not "need to be saved".  


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Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
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