From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 47


In article 1qmtd1INNr1l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca, gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca (Brad Gibson) writes:

<In response to a debate about who has has a better season- Jagr of Francis>

I think Jagr did he probably had a better point per minute ice time- stats
don't exist to properly analyze this and he had a substancially better +/-.


>  Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to
>  flaunt your ignorance at all cost.  Jagr did not have a better season than
>  Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of
>  hockey knowledge.  Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty
>  plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.
>
>  Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice
>  time per game and some measure of its "quality" (i.e., is the player put out
>  in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up
>  against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would
>  much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious
>  merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.

+/- is a useful statistic.  If a player is on the ice when his team scores a
lot of goals and only allows a few goals, he must be doing something right.
It is especially useful to compare between teammates- as they play for the
same team and should have roughly similar +/- ratings if they are equally
good players.  It can be adjusted- with varying degrees of success to compare
between players on different teams.

I agree it would be nice for the NHL to keep more statistics- but how useful
are the ones that you suggest??  Total ice time would be very useful- it is
a missing stat in Jagr vs Francis arguments from before.  Somehow measuring
the quality of ice time as you suggest would be useless.  It would be a
better stat for evaluating coaching- ie are the players given quality ice
time actually their talented ones?  A very good player could be given low
amounts of quality ice time because of team depth or a stupid coach who
doesn't recognize his talent and a very bad player could be given lots of
quality ice time because of a lack of team depth or a stupid coach that
thinks he is an effective player.  This stat would be much more flawed than
+/- and almost no conclusions could be drawn regarding player talent.

+/- is a useful stat.  It is quite useful in evaluating player talent.
You are the one displaying ignorance because of your unwillingness to see
that being on the ice when goals are scored but not when they are allowed
is a very positive thing- and should be evaluated as such.

Gregmeister
