From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)
Subject: Re: christians and aids
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin
Lines: 98

In article <Apr.8.00.57.49.1993.28271@athos.rutgers.edu> marka@travis.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) writes:
>In article <Apr.7.01.55.33.1993.22762@athos.rutgers.edu> kevin@pictel.pictel.com (Kevin Davis) writes:
>>Many Christians believe in abstinence, but in a moment will be overcome
>>by desire.  We all compromise and rationalize poor choices (sin).  Last
>>week I was guilty of anger, jealousy, and whole mess of other stuff,
>>yet I am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with AIDs.  To even
>>suggest that AIDS is "deserved" is ludicrous.
>
>Some rules are made because at some point man is too stupid
>to know better. Yet, eventually man learns. But only after
>getting a lesson from experience.

Yes, it's important to realize that all actions have consequences,
and that "rules" were made for our own good.  But to suggest that a
*disease* is a *punishment* for certain types of sin I think is 
taking things much too far.  If we got some kind of mouth disease
for lying, would any of us have mouths left?  What if we developed
blindness every time we lusted after someone or something?  I dare
say all of us would be walking into walls.
>
>I wonder if AIDS would be a problem now if people didn't get
>involved in deviant sexual behaviour. Certainly, people who
>received tainted blood are not to blame. But it just goes
>to show that all mankind is affected by the actions of a few.

Yes, sin can have terrible consequences, but we need to be *real*
careful when saying that the consequences are a *punishment* for 
sin.  The Jews of Jesus's time believed that all sickness was the
result of a sin.  Then Jesus healed a blind man and said that man was
blind to show the glory of God, not because of sin.  If AIDS, or any
other STD is a *punishment" for sexual sin, what do we do with 
diseases like cancer, or multiple sclerosis, which are just as
debilitating and terrible as AIDS, yet are not usually linked to a
specific behavior or lifestyle?
>
>In addition, IMHO forgiveness is not the end of things.
>There is still the matter of atonement. Is it AIDS ?
>I don't know.

Atonement is *extremely* important, but I think you've missed the mark
about as far as you can by suggesting that AIDS is an atonement for sin.
The atonement for sin is JESUS CHRIST - period.  This is the central
message of the Gospel.  A perfect sacrifice was required for our sins,
and was made in the Lamb of God.  His sacrifice atoned for *all* of
our sins, past present and future.  God does not require pennance for
our sins, nor does he require us to come up with our own atonement.  He
has graciously already done that for us.  To suggest that AIDS or 
some other consequence is an atonement for sins is literally spitting
on the sacrifice that Jesus made.

In case you couldn't tell, I get *extremely* angry and upset when
I see things like this.  Instead of rationalizing our own fears and
phobias, we need to be reaching out to people with AIDS and other
socially unacceptable diseases.  Whether they got the disease through
their own actions or not is irrelevant.  They still need Jesus Christ,
no more and no less than we do.  I've said this before, but I think
it's a good analogy.  People with AIDS are modern-day lepers.  Jesus
healed many lepers.  He can also heal people with AIDS, maybe not on
this earth, but in an ultimate sense.  My next-door neighbor has AIDS.
She has recently come to have a much deeper and more committed 
relationship with God.  Her theology isn't what I would want it to be,
but God's grace covers her.  The amazing thing is that she is gaining
weight (she's had the disease for over 2 years) and her health is
excellent apart from occassional skin rashes and such.  She attributes
her improvement in her health to God's intervention in her life.  Who
are we to suggest that her disease is some kind of punishment?  It
seems to me that God is being glorified through her disease.

Paul Overstreet, the country singer, has a good song title that I 
think applies to all of us - But for the Grace of God, There Go I
(or something like that).

May we all experience and accept God's grace.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Ashley                        |DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed
>marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com      |here are my own; they do not
>..!uunet!gcx1!marka               |reflect the opinion or policies
>The Lost Los Angelino              |of Harris Corporation.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------


===============================================================================
Paul Conditt		Internet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Applied Research	Phone:	  (512) 835-3422   FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259
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