From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Subject: Re: Is it good that Jesus died?
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco
Lines: 111

brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615) writes:
>
>They do not want to know it or be exposed to light 
>because their own evil deeds will be uncovered.  And so by their
>own choice, they will remain in darkness.  Sort of like bugs under
>a rock.  However, some people, but not many, will not like the
>darkness.  Sometimes it gets too cold and too dark to be
>comfortable.  These people will crawl out from under the rock,
>and although blinded at first, will get accustomed to the light
>and enjoy its warm.  And after a while, by virtue of the light,
>they will see the depths of their own shortcomings AND how to correct them. 
>And also, they will see that there is much much more to this world
>than just the narrow little experiences under the rock.  They will 
>discover that life under a rock was incredibly yukky and that
>life with the Light of the World, is great.  So great, that they
>will want to tell all their friends about it.

And I maintain:

Some people do not want to enter into the light and the knowledge that
they alone are their own masters, because they fear it; they are too
afraid of having to face the world on their own terms.  And so, by
their own choice, they will remain in darkness, sort of like bugs
under a rock.  However, some people, but not many, will not like the
darkness.  Sometimes it gets too cold and too dark to be comfortable.
These people will crawl out from under the rock, and, although blinded
at first, will get accustomed to the light and enjoy its warmth.  And,
after a while, now that they can see things for what they really are,
they will also see the heights which they can reach, and the places
they can go, and they will learn to choose their own paths through the
world, and they will learn from their mistakes and revel in their
successes.

They will see that there is much much more to the world than just the
narrow experiences under the rock.  They will discover that life under
a rock was incredibly yucky, and that life on their own terms is great
-- so great that they will want to tell everyone else about it.

Do you see my point?  I think you're the one under the rock, and I'm
getting a great tan out here in the sunlight.  My life has improved
immesurably since I abandoned theism -- come and join me!  It will be
a difficult trip at first, until you build up your muscles for the
long hike, but it's well worth it!

>Not all people hate light Kent. We all have an adversion to it to some
>extent.  But Brian Kendig who has been replying to this thread certainly likes
>darkness.  Brian K. enjoys stating false concepts and false pressumptions
>about the God of the Bible.  Without checking his own presumptions,
>he compares my God with Odin or Zeus.

Look, you just practically equated Odin and Zeus?  They're as much
different as your god is from them...

Don't you see?  I'm not going to accept ANYTHING that I can't witness
with my own eyes or experience with my own senses, especially not
something as mega-powerful as what you're trying to get me to accept.
Surely if you believe in it this strongly, you must have a good
*reason* to, don't you?

>Withough checking his own
>presumption, he thinks hell is the equivalent of non-existence.

When did I say that?  I say that I would rather CEASE EXISTING instead
of being subject to the whims of a deity, but that if the deity
decided to toss me into the fiery pits because of who I am, then so be it.

>Do you enjoy darkness?  Most people will honestly admit "yes".  Most people
>are fond of their sexual sins, their hording of money, their
>selfishness, and not to mention, their Biblical ignorance.

Nope -- most people are Christian.  Most people are fond of feeling
that they are imperfect, of believing that the world is an undesirable
place, of reciting magical mystical prayers to make the world nice and
holy again, of doing just as their priests tell them, like good little
sheep.  You enjoy darkness, and you're proud of it.

You may know the Bible well -- but have you read any of the Koran?  Or
Zen writings?  Or Hare Krishna literature?  If you haven't, then how
can you say you have an open mind?

>Sin is fun!  Let's
>admit it.  But a life of sin leads to trouble and death in this
>life, and hell in the next.

Nope.  You make decisions, enjoy your successes, and accept your
failures; then you die.  If you are content with the life you've led
as you reflect back on it in your final moments, then you've led a
good life.

>Come out from under the rock.  

Please do.

>    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
>    that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal
>    life."

I'm sorry, I don't feel that sacrificing Jesus was something any god
I'd worship would do, unless the sacrifice was only temporary, in
which case it's not really all that important.

Forget the Bible for a minute.  Forget quoting verses, forget about
who said what about this or that.  *Show me.*  Picture just you and me
and a wide open hilltop, and convince me that you're right.

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  The meaning of life     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /    is that it ends.                                           -- Rousseau
