History Discussion

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The Greeks who were

separate but united

Lecture 4

Dr. Nutzman

1. What forms of government did the Greeks know?

2. What made the Greeks Greek?

On the agenda for lecture 4

On the agenda…

c. 1650 BCE: Rise of Mycenaean civilization

c. 1450 BCE: Mycenaeans conquer Minoan Crete

c. 1250 BCE: Approximate date of the Trojan War according to Homer

c. 1200 BCE: End of the Bronze Age and beginning of the Iron Age

c. 800 BCE: End of the Iron Age and beginning of the Archaic period

480 BCE: End of the Archaic period and beginning of the Classical period

323 BCE: End of the Classical period and the beginning of the Hellenistic period

Dates to keep in mind

In 1821, Greeks fought a war of independence

against the Ottoman Empire and the

modern country of Greece was born.

Because we are used to the idea that a country named

“Greece” exists today, it is easy to imagine that

something similar existed in the ancient world.

It didn’t.

There was no country of Greece.

There was no kingdom of Greece.

There was no Greek empire.

A polis (plural: poleis) is an independent Greek city-state

Each Greek city was entirely independent.

Each Greek city was like its own independent country.

There are a few city-states that exist in our modern world:

Monaco, Singapore, and Vatican City.

Today, Greece is just the peninsula in the center of this map. Italy is on the left (west) and Turkey is on the right (east)

In antiquity, southern Italy, western Turkey, and everything in-between was part of the Greek world

There were more than 1,000 independent poleis in the Greek world. This map shows only a few of them

Archaic and Classical Greece

These 1,000+ poleis did not have the same

form of government and there was

no central government that united them.

Ancient Greeks recognized three broad types of

government and classified the governments of most

poleis as belonging to one of these three forms.

Monarchy

Oligarchy

Democracy

In each of these words, the –archy or –cracy parts of

the word mean “rule by.” The first part of the

word identifies who does the ruling.

Who do you think rules in each form of government?

Monarchy

Oligarchy

Democracy

Monarchy: rule by one

Oligarchy: rule by a few

Democracy: rule by the people

Forms of government

Greeks didn’t agree on which form of

government was the best

Let’s look at what one ancient Greek author, Herodotus, has to say

about the strengths and weaknesses of each form of government

Herodotus

Herodotus lived in the fifth century BCE

He wrote a history of the Greek world and of the war between the Greeks and the Persian Empire

Some people call him the “Father of History,” since he was the earliest Greek historian

I picture him as a friendly grandfather who wants to sit around all day telling stories to anyone who will listen

Herodotus

Herodotus wrote a fictional debate that he imagined some leading Persians having

In this fictional debate, each of the Persians argues for why one form of government is better than the other two

According to the first person in this debate (Otanes),

what are the strengths of oligarchy?

What are the weaknesses of democracy?

Scroll to the next slide for the primary source

Otanes encouraged them to place the government in the hands of all the Persians, saying, “I think it is best that we no longer be ruled by one of ourselves as a monarch, since that kind of government is neither pleasant nor good. You have seen how Cambyses became outrageously arrogant, and you have all experienced the insolence of the Magus directly. How could monarchy be a harmonious and coherent system when it permits the ruler to do whatever he wishes, to be accountable to no one? Even the best of men, if placed in this position of power, would lose his normal mental balance, for arrogance will grow within him as he enjoys all the good things at hand, as will envy, too, which is always a fundamental component of human nature. All evil lies in these two traits, and he manifests both of them. Glutted with arrogance, he carries out many reckless deeds and will then commit more outrageous acts out of envy! Since he possesses all good things, the tyrant ought to be entirely free from envy, but instead he behaves just the opposite toward the citizens, for he envies the best men if they survive and live around him, while he derives pleasure from the worst people in town. But he himself is the best of men when it comes to accepting slander. And indeed his character is most inconsistent in nature, for if you admire him to a moderate degree, he is upset that he is not being treated with sufficient difference, but if you treat him subserviently, then he becomes annoyed by your obsequiousness. And the worst of all his traits is that he kills men without trial.

The rule of the majority, however, not only has the most beautiful and powerful name of them all, equality, but in practice, the majority does not act at all like a monarch. Indeed, the majority chooses its magistrates by lot, it holds all of these officials accountable to an audit, and it refers all resolutions to the authority of the public. I therefore propose that we abandon monarchy and raise the majority to a ruling position, for in the many is the whole.”

Herodotus 3.80

According to the second person in this debate

(Megabyzos), what are the strengths of democracy?

What are the weaknesses of monarchy?

Scroll to the next slide for the primary source

Next, Megabyzos urged them to turn to oligarchy saying, “I am in favor of what Otanes says in his attempt to put an end to tyranny, but when he tells us to transfer power to the majority, he has strayed far from good judgement. For nothing can be more unintelligent or insolent than the worthless, ineffectual mob. If men want to escape the arrogance of a tyrant, it is absolutely intolerable that they should then fall victim to the arrogance of the undisciplined common people. For whatever the tyrant may do, he at least knows what he is doing, whereas the people have no idea what they are doing. How could someone who has not been educated, who has never seen anything good or decent, be knowledgeable about anything? He pushes and shoves and stumbles into affairs without thought, like a raging torrent.

So let those who are hostile to the Persians be governed by the people, while we pick out the best men to make up an intimate company and endow it with power and authority. We ourselves will of course belong to this company, and the best men are most likely to make the best decisions.” That, then was the opinion of Megabyzos.

Herodotus 3.81

According to the third person in this debate (Darius),

what are the strengths of monarchy?

What are the weaknesses of oligarchy?

Scroll to the next slide for the primary source

The third to express his opinion was Darius, who said, “What Megabyzos claimed about the majority seems right to me, but what he said about oligarchy seems wrong. For if we compare the best examples in theory of these three types of government – the best democracy, the best oligarchy, and the best monarchy – I declare that monarchy surpasses the other two by far. For obviously nothing can be better than the one man who is the best. And since he has the best judgement, he would be a blameless administrator of the majority, and thus, too, he would best be able to maintain silence about his plans to oppose enemies.

In an oligarchy, on the other hand, many men strive to achieve excellence, and thus private rivalries tend to become public hostilities. For each man wants to be the head of affairs and desires that his own opinions prevail; so that they ultimately become extremely hostile toward one another, which leads to the emergence of factions, which in turn produces bloodshed, and which then results in the establishment of a monarchy. This progressing, then also demonstrates just how much monarchy excels the others.

Then again, when the people rule, incompetence will always and inevitably be the result. While this incompetence is present, these inept men do not themselves engage in public hostilities, but instead form strong friendships among one another as they incompetently manage the commonwealth together. This situation goes on until one of them steps forth as leader of the people and stops the others from continuing such actions, after which this man is much admired by the people. And because of this admiration he is effectively declared to be a monarchy, which again proves that monarchy is the best of the three.

But I can summarize my argument by one statement: where did our freedom come from – who gave it to us? Did it come from the people, from an oligarchy, or from a monarchy? Well, then, in my opinion, since we were freed by one man, we should preserve that form of government. Moreover, we should not let go of our ancestral traditions, which are fine just as they are, for that would not be the better course.”

Herodotus 3.82

The speakers in this debate – and by extension

the author, Herodotus – recognized strengths and

weaknesses of each form of government.

Reading between the lines, which one do you think the

author, Herodotus, actually thought was the best? Which

one do you think Herodotus thought was the worst?

As you can see from Herodotus, Greeks believed that

bad governments tended to fall apart and be replaced

by a new form of government rather than by a better

version of the same form of government

We call this the cycle of constitutions

Remember that there were more than 1,000 independent poleis in the Greek world

Each of them had a different form of government, based on one (or more) of these three traditional forms of government

We’ll look at the government of two of these poleis – Athens and Sparta – in lecture 4

Archaic and Classical Greece

This raises an important question

If each Greek polis was independent, with a different form of

government, is it legitimate to refer to “ancient Greece” as if the

Greeks had anything in common with each other?

Definitely!

Shameless plug…I teach a class called “Hoplites and Heroes:

History of Ancient Greece” if you’re interested in finding

out more about the Greeks

So what sorts of things do you think might have united

the Greeks if it wasn’t a government?

Remember how you answered this question….

What did you learn in this section of the lecture?

On the agenda…

What type of events would make it easier for a group of

people to recognize that they have more in common with

their neighbors than they previously thought?

If you guessed an enemy attack or war, you’d be right!

Who was the major enemy that the Greeks

fought in the archaic period?

Scroll up if you don’t remember;

I already mentioned them in this lecture

Compare the two maps above. The first one is the map of Greek poleis that you saw earlier. The second shows the western part of the Persian empire around 500 BCE

Based on these two maps, why do you think that the Greeks went to war with the Persians?

What do you think happened to the Greeks who lived on the western coast of what is today Turkey?

Why did the Greeks fight the Persians?

If you have not watched the assigned video for this module, “Persians and Greeks; Crash Course World History #5,” watch it now

The link is in the module 1 folder on Blackboard

Persian War

In the middle of the Persian War, the Spartans

accused the Athenians of being about to

switch sides and fight with the Persians.

Scroll to the next slide for the Athenians’ response

For there are many great reasons why we should not do this, even

if we so desired; first and foremost, the burning and destruction of

the adornments and temples of our gods, whom we are

constrained to avenge to the utmost rather than make pacts with

the perpetrator of these things, and next the kinship of all Greeks

in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices

that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of life, to all

of which it would not befit the Athenians to be false. Know this

now, if you knew it not before, that as long as one Athenian is left

alive we will make no agreement with Xerxes.

Herodotus 8.144 (479 BCE)

According to Herodotus, what reasons did the

Athenians give for not changing sides?

The first half of the Athenians’ answer has to do with

something that the Persians did to them

When the Persians attacked Athens in 480 BCE, they burned the acropolis (picture on left is from this scene in 300: Rise of an Empire)

The acropolis is the highest point in a Greek city, and it is usually where the city’s most important temples are located

When Athens was finally able to rebuild the acropolis, they took the columns from one of the temples that the Persians burned and built them into the retaining wall on the top of the acropolis as a reminder of what the Persians had done

They are still in the same place today, and you can see them today if you go to Athens (right picture)

Athenian Acropolis

The second half of the Athenians’ answer in Herodotus has

to do with why they felt loyal to their fellow Greeks

The second half of their answer is also the best definition

that we have for what it meant to be Greek

This answer shows why it is legitimate to refer to “ancient Greece”

even though there was no unified Greek country or empire in antiquity

According to the Athenians, what are the

components of Greek identity?

…and next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of

life, to all of which it would not befit the Athenians to be false.

The Greeks believed that they were all related – this is the “blood” part of the Athenians’ answer

They created a mythological genealogy that showed how inhabitants of each region in the Greek world were related to each other

They also all spoke Greek

While they recognized that they all spoke dialects of the same language, that does not mean that all Greeks would have been able to understand each other; in many cases, different dialects were probably mutually unintelligible

Greek identity: blood and speech

According to the Athenians, what are the

components of Greek identity?

…and next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of

life, to all of which it would not befit the Athenians to be false.

The Greeks recognized that they all worshipped the same gods

Some gods were more important in some cities than in others; for example, Athena was the most important god in Athens and Zeus was the most important god in Olympia

In addition to the temples to the gods and goddesses that Greeks had in each of their own cities, some places had Panhellenic sanctuaries (Hellenic = Greek)

Panhellenic sanctuaries were a place where all of the Greeks could come together to worship

Greek identity: shrines of the gods and sacrifices

Four of the most important Panhellenic sanctuaries are shown on this map: Delphi, Olympia, Nemea, and Isthmia

You have probably heard of the Olympic Games, which originated in ancient Greece; in addition to the Olympics, each of the Panhellenic sanctuaries shown here held games every two or four years

They were stephanitic or “crown” games, because all that you got for winning was a wreath/crown made of a particular type of plant

Winners at Isthmia got a wreath of pine needles, at Nemea a wreath of celery (my favorite!), and Olympia a wreath of olive branches, and at Delphi a wreath of bay leaves

Greek identity

SPARTA

According to the Athenians, what are the

components of Greek identity?

…and next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of

life, to all of which it would not befit the Athenians to be false.

The translation from Herodotus that I gave you on an earlier slide referred to “the likeness of our way of life”

What Herodotus actually said in Greek was “the Greek thing” or “Greekness” – what we might call Greek identity

Greek identity: way of life

What made up this “Greekness” or Greek identity?

We don’t really know!

However, it must be something other than religion, shared

kinship, and language, since those are listed separately

Although it is hard to explain what exactly Herodotus meant by Greek identity, it is very easy to differentiate between Greeks and non-Greeks in Greek art

Which one is the Greek in each of the above images?

Which one is the non-Greek?

Hint: Greeks (and Romans!) are never shown wearing pants; if you see someone in pants in Greek or Roman art, you know that the artist was depicting a foreigner

Greek identity

After the Greeks defeated the Persians in 479 BCE at the battle of Plataea, all the

Greeks that had fought together against the Persians (including Athens and Sparta) set up a monument at Delphi, one of the Panhellenic sanctuaries

The monument was three intertwined bronze serpents with a golden tripod balanced on their heads

On the coils of the serpents were written the names of the Greek allies

The column was taken from Delphi to Constantinople by Constantine to decorate

the hippodrome (place where they raced chariots); it is still in Istanbul today

Greek identity

What did you learn in this section of the lecture?

1. What forms of government did the Greeks know?

2. What made the Greeks Greek?

Review the material covered in lecture 4