Principles of Advocacy and Public Policy

Learn to Fight Fair

Here's Dr James Dobson with family talk. Since there's conflict in every

romantic relationship learning to fight fair just might be the most

important lesson any couple can master you know there's a real difference

between healthy and unhealthy combat and marriage and everything depends on

the way disagreements are handled in an unstable marriage hostility

is usually meant to hurt and it's often directed at the soft underbelly

of the partner's ego with comments like you never do anything right then why

did I marry you in the first place and I think you're getting more

like your mother every day these words strike at the very heart

of a mate self-worth on the other hand healthy conflict remain centered

on the immediate problem at hand for example it upsets me when you don't

tell me you'll be late for dinner or I was embarrassed when he made me look

foolish at the party last night can you hear the difference even though the

subject matter might be equally emotional intense the focus is on the specific

problem in the relationship and not on what you perceive as a basic

personality defect of your mate when couples learn this important distinction

they have the freedom to disagree and work through conflicts with

their dignity still intact to James Dobson with family talk.

Bonding in Marriage

Here's Dr. James Dobson

with family talk. In marriage as

in courtship, there's a simple rule

of thumb for animacy. Take your time. Some interesting

research has been done recently on the emotional bonding between husbands

and wives. According to

Dr. Donald joy, a couple bonds most closely when they

move slowly and systematically through

the various stages of animacy during their courtship and

early marriage. When later stages are

reached prematurely, such as when couples kiss passionately

on the first day, or have sexual intercourse shortly thereafter, something precious is lost in the bonding is

short-circuited. The strongest

marriages often occur where couples

have walked slowly and deliberately through the progressive stages

of physical intimacy, saving sexual consummation

for the honeymoon. This concept is

important for singles, but it also has

something to say for married

couples as well. Husbands and

wives often make the mistake of rushing

their intimacy, are taking it for granted. But they also bond together best when

they journey through the steps of intimacy regularly during

their daily lives. Touching, talking,

holding hands, gazing into one

other's eyes and building memories

are as important to partners in their

midlife years as to rambunctious 20-year-old Soto lovers of all ages, I say slow it down,

make it last. Take your time. Dr. James Dobson

with family talk.

Today's Black Robe Brigade

Welcome to family

talk with host, psychologist and author in my father, Dr.

James Dobson. I'm Ryan Dobson here with my co-host, Luann crane. Always good to be

here with you and all of our listeners

who carved out time to be

with us today. And Dr. It is Monday, we are all back to the

grind of the ordinary. Well, that work is

going to be done on behalf of family

talk obviously. And today, we have a very provocative program to share with

our listeners. And it has to do with something

as important as censorship of

the church by governmental agencies and particularly the IRS. And we have two very

knowledgeable guests with us who will explain that situation for us. And I hope that, that

every listener will pay close attention

today because it has major implications

for the future. And especially I hope pastors are listening

and they're not right for a CD and we will send it to you to give to them because the

pastures are the key. They can call us or go to our website our website

as family talk.org. Our phone number

is 87773268 to five or send them a

link to the podcast. Dr. Well, first we're joined in the studio

today by one of the lawyers who work

side-by-side with our good friend Alan Sears at the Alliance

Defense Fund. Eric Stanley is

senior counsel for ATF's Kansas City

Regional Service Center. He's a member

of the bar in three states

and specializes in the pellet law, free speech and

religious liberties as they relate to

constitutional law, just to name a few. Eric, Did I get it right? I think you got it

right. In Iraqi. Don't look old enough

to be a senior counsel. Lot of experience. I can tell you what

I know a lot about this man from

my friendships. But then they DF and this man knows what

he's talking about. Also joining

us by phone is another frequent guest on this program,

Dr. Jim Carlo. Dr. Carlo is the

senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan

Church in California. A very courageous pasture. And I tell you what, I have great love and appreciation

for this man. So thank you

both gentlemen for being with us today. Yeah. Eric, I'm on to toss a first

question to you, and it is pretty

straightforward. Pastors are often

intimidated and even bullied when it comes

to moral issues, especially from

behind the Pope it and that has great

relevance to the church. Explain why this

intimidation is occurring. Well, it really all

started back in 1954 from the beginning of America until

950 for pastors could speak about anything that they wanted

from the Pullman. They didn't have

to worry about a governmental agency breathing down

their neck or trying to censor

their sermons. But in 950 for with the passage of

what we call the Johnson Amendment, named after

Lyndon B Johnson, who was a senator

at the time. And just to give you a very brief snapshot

of how he did that, he was running

for re-election for the US Senate

seat for Texas. And he was being

opposed by two secular non-profit

organizations. They thought

he was soft on communism and didn't

like his views. And Johnson tried to find some different ways to silence these non-profit

organizations. And he finally

hit on an idea. He showed up on

the floor of the Senate July second, 950 for and he offered

an amendment to an existing tax

overhaul bill that was pending

before the Senate. And that's what we call the Johnson

amendment. And it basically says that non-profit entities

could not participate in or intervene in any

political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate

for public office. And that included

publishing or distributing

statements. And the legislative

history of the Johnson Amendment is literally

two paragraphs long in the

congressional record. Now, in a day and

age where we have 1000 page bills that are coming out of Congress. That's pretty

extraordinary. But this

legislative history shows that Johnson

had already grease the wheels behind the scenes with the

sponsor of the tax bill. And it passed unanimously

by a voice vote, and it was added

to the bill. The bill went on to

pass the Senate and went on to pass the House and was signed into law. And suddenly overnight, this bill that was

intended to silence to secular non-profit organizations that

were opposing Johnson's candidacy

for the Senate was applied to

churches also, because churches occupy the same non-profit status that those secular non-profit

organizations did. And prior to that, there was no such

restriction on them. There was absolutely

no restriction for the first 166 years

of American history, pastor spoke forcefully

from the pulpit. In fact, historians

have said that we owe our independence

and great degree to the moral force

of the pulpit. Pastors have spoken out on the great moral and

social issues of the day. Civil rights, women's suffrage ending

child labor, all of these things. Pastor spoke freely

on our good friend, David Barton at wall

builders pulled some sermons for

us in the past and history and

talking about how pastures frequently spoke out during

election time. And they spoke out on candidate's going back to the election of

Thomas Jefferson, which was the architect of the so-called separation

of church and state. Pastors are

speaking out about his candidacy

for president. And we're saying don't vote for him or

vote for him. And they didn't

have to worry about the IRS or anybody

else coming in and threatening their

tax exempt status or in any way trying to

punish or censor them. And it's been

since 950 for that this cloud of

intimidation and this atmosphere

of fear has pervaded the church to

the point now where pastors back away

from saying anything that might get anywhere close to violating

this line. So it really, it fosters an atmosphere of a lot

of chill on speech, a lot of self-censorship among the pasture it, pastors are just afraid because they don't know

where the line is. And when attorneys argue over where the line is, which they do,

how are we to expect our pastors to know what's

right and wrong? Sometimes it

actually didn't even originate in the whole separation

of church and state debate that

we hear today. This came from someone that was trying

to get elected, that was trying to

silence people and then just got pushed over

on the pastors. Well, that's right.

And I think it's important for folks to understand the history of how this came to pass. Because for about two

or three generations now we've grown up

in the church and I have to kind of believing that it's

somehow illegal or on laws that come like a constitutional

amendment has the right. That's exactly

right. That it's this assumption

that your pastures shouldn't talk

about anything, quote, political

from the pulpit. And it never used to be

that way in and only started becoming that way with the Johnson

Amendment. And which was really a politically revenge

motivated bill. Hmmm. How about what

President Johnson did there when he

was a senator? Is that unconstitutional? Because it sure

sounds that way. It is. And for so many years we've kind

of believed the lie, so to speak, that this is a law that applies

to churches. But it really is. The more we looked

at it at ADF, we really came to

the conclusion that this is

unconstitutional. It violates not only the free exercise

of religion, it violates the

Establishment Clause because you're

setting up the IRS as a government agency to come into a pulp

it into sensor. What a pastor says

from the pulpit. You the IRS has

interpreted and enforce this for the

last 57 years now. And they specifically

say that it applies to what a pastor says from the pulpit. And so when you set up a regime where you have the irs coming in to censor a pasture sermon that's unconstitutional. And certainly, what

we've come to believe in witches truth is that the first amendment trumps the Johnson

Amendment. Jim, talk about that

chilling effect that they're

just mentioned. Seven year history can

make quite an impact. I would like to

fellow pastor who might be supportive

of not speaking out. How's that working out for you? Here's our community. Our community is more

or less righteous. Today. Is our preaching, producing less or more results than in the past? The fact is too

many pastures are gripped with

fear or the fear is not ultimately of the IRS that goes deeper

than that. And that is fear

of parishioners who will say, Oh, pasture, You're just to political will in reality. Because that

cultural myths in the mind of the

Pew Center, the eraser, effectively a very dysfunctional

church. It, the problem is, they don't

actually recognize what biblical

preaching is like. The early pastures in America that were already referred to by Erik. Preach, three hour-long election sermon January, I'm not advocating

this pasture. Try a three hour one that will work very well. But the fact that a pasture would weigh

in on these issues, and I personally am

convinced I look at a little bit different

than my friend Eric. Eric looked at as

an attorney to legal lands and he's

right to do that. I look at it through

the spiritual lands that we

will not have the next greatest

spiritual awakening in destination until the

puppets are free. This is a spiritual issue in Isaiah chapter 58. We need a fast to

break the yoke of fear and the cultural

myth off the pulpit. And also piu that has

really been put on us from 1954 to the

present with a straw. I'm Dr. Carlo, I've heard recently

that what you're talking about really

is living out the scripture

that says love your neighbor as yourself

from the pulpit. Because if you're a

pastor and you say, I love the people

around me, well then I want them to have the best opportunity to grow up and the

best environment for them to have

healthy families that will allow me to

speak in their lives, to teach them about Jesus. And the pastors

that aren't talking about the

issues that are destroying families, they're destroying

communities. They're wrecking

Holmes clearly aren't loving their

neighbours as themselves, could not be dated better than what

you get out. What really occurred

is remarkable. We were given. That was his seizures given to God, that

which is God. But I like the last line of the Manhattan

declaration, written by Robby George, the Catholic out of

Princeton University and Timothy George, the Dean of the

Divinity School at Stanford University in Birmingham, Alabama. The last line of

it is as follows. We will fully and

on grudgingly render to Caesar

what is seizures. But under no

circumstances will we render to Caesar

what is God? Now what had

happened is that line of what belongs to Caesar had been pushed over and over into that, which is God. Just

think for a minute. 50 years ago, if we were to shed during up a baby in the womb is wrong. Everybody was said yes. But now if you it ball but you're considered

to be political. 30 years ago,

if we just set the practice of

homosexuality is a fan. Everybody was said yes. But now if you

say that Nepal, but now you're being

too political. Ten years ago we

would've said marriage if a

man and a woman. Now if you say that Nepal, but you're considered to be too political leader has moved in and the

result it a killing, violating impact on

pastures that had a catastrophic results

in our communities, our families and

on individuals. Just a garlands

will address that sense there

right now, who says that you

have no idea? I asked Democrats,

republicans, libertarians, independents in

my congregation as I speak out on this, my whole congregation

will divide. Well, I'd say number

one, probably all of us, most of us have people of all political ideology

than our congregation. The fact is that we're

not committed to, any of them were

not Republican, Democrat, Independent

or anything else. We were fiercely committed

to biblical truth. What God's word says, we must speak out on, imagine if you would, the pastures back before the Civil War

saying I can't speak out on slavery because it would split

my congregation. The irony is that

exactly what some congregations

that and what they did and what pasture said in that timeframe. Now how do we look at

those kind of people? They sold out

on the word of God because of

political expediency. If they had it

versus truth, they chose, they chose

piece over truth. And how do we view them? I'm a part of a very

small denomination called a westerly

denomination. That Wesleyan denomination

was formed for the purpose of freeing the slaves from the south. And I spoke out

on the women's right to vote issue, that the first

women's right to vote Conference

was held out. What planned church

in Seneca Falls, New York and 840 gate. I can't imagine today some pastures saying How dare pastoral

ancestors which speak out on these

political issues, a flavor out there

that can speak out on political issues like women's right to vote. But they did because

it was morally, biblically right. And so a pastor who's

fiercely committed a scripture is not looking to be a

weather vane. What in the world is

being fed from the Pew? He's looking to the

Word of God to speak for God and to the culture in which

we find ourselves. Yeah, Jim, you're

not primarily urging pastors to endorse political

candidates, right? That's not what your, uh, your Aster mean. It may involve the

freedom to do that. But there's a much

larger issue here. Yeah, it has to do with endorsing what God says. And God's word

is crystal clear that the destruction

of a baby in the womb, if an animal and

horrific act. That being the

case, it is totally appropriate based up not only on biblical

authority, but our constitutional

freedoms, freedom of speech and

freedom of religion. Based upon the

First Amendment, any pastor has

the legal right to say anything he or

she wants from Nepal, but including to

say the following. For example, the

following candidates band on the

following issues. Abortion, definition

of marriage, issues of national

debt, et cetera. The scripture would teach them about those

following issues. Based upon that, as followers of Jesus Christ, fully devoted followers

of Jesus Christ, we would want

to lift up and exalt over our

nation those who would be the best

representation of what God has ordained for national

and community life. That every pastor

should have the legal right to do. Eric, should this battle they've sought out as a

constitutional issue. You're an attorney,

obviously, you're thinking

in those terms. So this eventually wind up before the

Supreme Court. Well, we think it should, because initially when this Johnson

Amendment was passed and it was

inserted into the IRS code in 950. For those

constitutional issues were never addressed. They were never debated. This past without any

legislative analysis. There was no

committee hearings. There was no attempt to discover how this would affect the

constitutional rights of pastors and churches. Am I correct in saying

that the IRS has never successfully taken away the non-profit status

from a church. Yeah, that's a

correct statement. The IRS has only in

one reported case, revoked the tax exempt

letter of a church, which is different than the status of a church. Under the IRS code, churches do not need a tax exempt letter from the IRS to be

considered exempt. They're automatically

exempt. They occupy that status simply because

they are a church. And that's a nod

that Congress gave to the constitutional

freedoms of churches. They don't want

churches to have to register with the government

in order to be considered tax exempt. And so churches

occupy that status. That status has never been taken away by the IRS. Some churches do

get a letter from the IRS saying that

they are tax exempt, but it's not

necessary to do that. And the one case where that tax exempt letter was taken away

from a church, the church

actually went way, way, way out of bounds, put a full-page ad

in the USA today, urging Christians

to vote against a particular candidate

for president, and solicited funds to

help pay for the ad. Never argue that

that was part of their free

exercise of religion was when the that

was reinstated and the letter

was reinstated. The church never had

to pay any penalties or taxes as a

result, really. Alright, we've got about three or four

minutes left and we need to talk

about what people can do about this, said, Jim, weigh

in on that. What are you planning? Over? The second is extremely important day for America, for American Christianity, that they are

political freedom. We encourage people

to go to Pulpit Freedom.comma. What happened is

the ADF and AD FS over 2 thousand

Allied Attorney. Thank God for Eric

who you have on there and many others

just like him, who are willing

to defend us as pastors pro bono to stand on our

biblical authority and our constitutional

rights. The result is the ADF encourage a group

of pastors, small select group and 2008 to speak out boldly, they would in

their sermons actually challenged, by virtue of the

content of sermons, challenge the

Johnson amendment. They tape

recorded them and they sent them to the IRS. Thirty-three

pastors did that. Nothing happened

in 2009 AT for pasture to do

the same thing. Nothing happened in 20 CAN 100 pastures

did the same thing. Nothing happen. This year. We would like to

see a minimum of 500 to 1000 or more. Pastures do the

same thing. And people can earn their pastures to be bold. And I want to

encourage people to do that because if

a pastor speak, shout, be assured there's one or two or three

or four people who are going to stay

in that congregation. I'm going to leave and go to some other church and take my tie,

check with me. And that intimidates

pastures. So if you have a pasture

really willing to speak out and

stand with him, encourage him,

by all means, pasture our

curriculum to go to Pulpit Freedom.com. There's a one-minute

video clip people going to watch as a

place to sign up. And then we have webinars will be listed there

as well in the future, taking place each

Wednesday for pastures and Christian leaders

across America. So they can be

more informed about how to re-establish their religious

liberties that people knew in this

country before 1954. It's Pulpit

Freedom.com and Dr. Karla will also have links to that

information at Sammy talk.org and eats. We are trained at

literally hundreds of testers will be encouraged to

get involved. And if we do not

take action, we will kinda

quickly like Canada, they want a friend of mine flew up there to preach. A week on services. Formed as he

went up there do not mentioned the

word homosexuality. Do not mentioned

the word Islam. And before long, I

suspect you will not be able to actually

define marriage. What's ironic in this Dr. Dobson is what we're

talking about, freedom and pop, it

applies to all pastures. They would apply to conservative

Biblical pastures, as well as we

would apply it actually to

liberal bastion. It would apply to any

faster by virtue of our constitutional protections of the

First Amendment. But on a deeper

issue with me, I want to restate

what I said earlier. I believe a

spiritual awakening that we all long for will not occur in America until a number of ingredients

come together. And one of those is an emboldening

corporate America. Dr. Carlo, I've experienced

that firsthand. I was in Canada not

too many months ago. And as I was going

through customs, they said, are you here

for work or pleasure? I said I'm here for

work and they said, What do you do? And I said I'm

a speaker in the customs agent

looked at me funny and she said, What are you here

to speak on? I said, Oh, I'm here

on the sanctity of human life and a

pro-life event. And she said, Are

we going to have any problems from you? And I was done. It did never dawned on me. I said No, not at all. And she goes,

Are you sure Is there going to

be a protest? I said No, there's

no protest. This is totally peaceful. And I got question for quite some

time at customs based on my belief in the sanctity

of human life. And it was a

sock and I saw this not happen

in America, but that's where

we're heading. If we're not careful,

I wish we could give pastures who

are willing to stand up an award. I would call

to Jonas Clark award one year ago, David Martin and

I did a 12 day two are called

the Next Great Awakening tour of Boston, New York, Philadelphia,

Washington DC, Harvard, Yale,

Princeton, et cetera. But the highlighted

a whole trip for me is only drove by

and Lexington, Massachusetts, the

home of Jonas Clark. He was the pasture or Paul Revere was

writing the night of the famous Midnight Ride and read the news

trying to get there. You want to get there

before the British were coming district

the destroys, the kill or get rid of. Clark, why the pastures in America we're speaking

truth and freedom, and boldness and

righteousness and the enemy, the truth and freedom

wanted to stop that. Took Paul Revere to try to get there TO warn him. I wish we could give a

Jonas Clark award for every pastor

who's willing to stand up in such a way. And so being the

enemies of truth and freedom will certainly

come after us. But it's worth standing

for the truth of God as one is

called by God. Jim, just very

quick glazed. Explain what the black robe

regiment was like. Has that played

a major role in the Revolutionary War? Oh, it did. And

accuse right off of this Jonas Clark

story up and down 2020 or pastures, who, when they would

preach their sermon, conclude there, Sherman's, they would take off

the black robe, the garments

that the clergy war back at that time. And there under

the black robes would be the attire

of military. And I pick up a musket and say

who it's going to go fight for

freedom with me. And sometimes every may own a congregational to rise up young farmer

boys and they would go. One of my favorite

stories is the account of one

pasture who lead it, a man of his congregation

to a nearby bridge. And he turned around,

they were much gets loaded to defend

freedom and truth. And he said to

the other men, and in his church,

here, we die. And that's the kind of person of God we're

looking for to occupy the pulpit the day that this nation can still be turn if there's truly freedom in Nepal, but give me liberty or give me death could

come to that. I think unfortunately

it potentially could. But I, I concluded during the Prop eight

battle here in California in 2008

at mid night, one night and June

when I wrestle with the issue of the

increased vandalism and violence I saw

against those who stood for in this case is the definition

of marriage. Did that night. There

are certain things much worse than death. And that's showing out for 30 pieces of silver. I don't want to be

a part of that. Alright, we're

talking a lot of people who'd like

to know more. Where did they get it? Luann, you said

we're going to link. We certainly

zoom the source. Dr. Carlo, you mentioned

several things. We will have those

at family talk.org. Well, thank you,

gentlemen for helping us make the case for Pulpit Freedom

Sunday and I've, and forming our listeners. I would love to have

both a view here on family talk and

another time before the event occurs

on October second, because we simply have to get the message out. In fact, I would

love to see 500 pastors are more

participate in it. They don't have to endorse a political candidate. And we're certainly

not gonna do that here at

family talk. But they do need to approach their

congregations and say, We're going to fight for righteousness

wherever it leads us, even if it creates

some controversy. And that's why we

need to do, you know, Jesus commanded those

who believed in him to pick up their

crosses and following. And that's a mandate

not only for his day, but I believe for

ours as well. So I thank you, Dr. Jim Carlo

and thank you Eric Stanley for

being with us. Please do keep

us informed. Want to we certainly will delight to

be with you. Dr. adoption always is

Jim. God bless you. Bless you as well. Thank you all so much for listening. God bless. Keep standing true, and we'll see

you next time for another edition of Dr. James Dobson family talk.

Being a Conservative Crusader - I

Hi everyone and welcome to another edition of Dr. James Dobson,

his family talk. I'm Ryan Dobson here with blue and Crane

and our host, a psychologist and

best-selling author, Dr. James Dobson Lewin. What are we going to

talk about today? We've all heard

about the role of the black robes brigade

in American history. You've mentioned

that quite a bit lately, doctor. And I just have to say I think it's pretty

accurate to say that we have a

modern-day member sitting right here in

the studio with us. Well, we certainly do for the listeners who aren't familiar with that term. Luann. They were pastors who used their pulpits to spread the cause of the

Revolutionary War. Many of them stripped off their black robes

and walked up the aisle and join the forces of

George Washington and the other generals. But cause of assaults

on religious liberty. And when it began to

impinge upon the church, these pastors

who had largely been pacifists who said, No, you can't

go any further. And they went

out and joined forces and help to fight the

Revolutionary War. And so they're

remembered as the black robe Brigade. And we do have a modern day black

robe Brigade member here with us today. And I'm pleased

to introduce our family Talk listeners to Dr. Robert Jeffress. Although I

daresay, many of the people in our

listening audience already know him, know who he is and

the people of Texas. No, I'm adamantly. He's the senior pastor of the 10 thousand member

First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas. He also hosts his own

daily radio program and weekly

television show. Has a Doctorate

of ministry from Southeastern

Theological Seminary. And he's written 18 books, including his

latest which is titled twilight

last gleaming. And that's where

we're going to talk about today. He's made more than

600 guest appearances on various radio and

television programs. And he's a regular guest

on fox and friends and the O'Reilly Factor and many other programs. He and his wife Amy have two grown daughters

and one son-in-law. And I tell you it is a great pleasure

to have you here. You got on a

plane, you came here and you go

home tomorrow. That's quite an investment

for a man who is the senior pastor of 10 thousand member church. Thank you for coming. Thanks for having us, Dr. Dobson and we enjoy having family talk on

our radio station in Dallas, case CBI. So it's going to be with

you here in person. I want to tell you how

I became familiar with your church and fell in love with your church. I came to the

Fairmont Hotel, which is just a block

or two away from you, isn't that right

across the street? It's still layer. This was 1974. And I came there to finish writing what wives, which their husbands

know about women. And so surely game with me and the publisher Ed

sentence there to get us away from

the phone and all the things

that were going on in my life

at that time, I was at USC School

of Medicine. And so I would write throughout the day and show you how to find

something to do. And she's really not

much of a shopper, so she was looking

around for things to do. It was Easter

time 970 four, and she heard that

Dr. Chris well, was speaking at noon every day in the build-up

or the prelude, easter that I later he did that for

many years. Disney. He did. The priest or surfaces I grew up

attending. No, sir. Did is your resilience so you were in that church

as a little boy? I've spent all my life in that church till

I went away at 30 to go pastor and then came back four years

ago was pastor, that must be a thrill.

It is a thrill. It surely would

come back from these meetings and we didn't know Dr.

Chris will. And she would tell me this somebody

you got to hear. This man is really great. And what she would outline what he

was talking about. And so I said are and I'll go with the ends

on Sunday morning. We went and we

got acquainted with Dr. Chris well, and he was very gracious to us and

they introduced this and that was the time

when that fell in love with the First

Baptist Church of Dallas. Well, you still have

a big fan club there, dr. Johnson and

I rarely do. You're building a

whole new facility. Why don't you write

the church is a 148 years old. We cover six blocks

of downtown Dallas, but we decided with everything happening

in Dallas, we wanted to have

a spiritual oasis in the center of the city. So we're involved in a $130 million re-creation of our entire

campus downtown. And God has been

so good and gracious and providing

the funding. Our members and we want to do this for

the glory of God. What you are developing quite a reputation that's probably been out

there for a long time, but I'm becoming

familiar with it. A reputation for speaking

the truth in love, for talking about the

sensitive issues, especially the

cultural issues, and not shrinking

from things that are from the point of view of the world

politically incorrect. And you believe that's what God has

called you to do? Absolutely. I mean, I'm a teacher and a preacher

of the Word of God. I think when

the word of God touches and intersects

with culture, we shouldn't shrink

away from it. I believe God

has called us, Dr. Dobson to be

influencers of our culture. I'm just so amazed

at the number of Christians and even

pastors who say, Well, you shouldn't mix politics with religion. To which I say, Well, what should you mix

it with then? I mean, all politics are based on some

set of values. And the word

politics means to govern or to influence. And I'll find it

inconceivable to say that Christians shouldn't try to influence the culture in

which we live. I believe that's our

mandate as Christians and pastor is rather

than politics. I like the words

public policy. Yes, we should try to

influence the culture. There's wickedness

all around us. Are we not gone to

speak up for that? And since when did

the church get skittish about talking

about right and wrong? Well, the biggest danger I see Dr. Dobson among Christians today is

political passive this, and it's this idea, well, the end is

coming anyway. Why should I try to

affect public policy? It's like

rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. And when anybody says

Christian shouldn't get involved in

politics or policy, I have to ask them

the question. Do you think

God cares about millions of babies being murdered every

year in the way, do you think

God cares about the rampant immorality that's engulfing

our country. Do you think God

cares about his name being outlawed

for mentioned in the public square? The god I know

hasn't changed. He's the same yesterday,

today and forever. And if you believe God cares about those things, then you just answered

the question, why Christians need to get involved in policy? Many people in the pulpit are afraid to talk

about those things. They talk about the unborn child and

protecting and child and abortion and

things related to it. And then he get hit

People criticism. That's right.

Yeah. They do and they're afraid of losing their tax exempt status. And in my book, twilight last

gleaming, I have a chapter for

pastors only. I point out the

fact, Dr. Dobson, there's never been a

church in history that's lost its tax

exempt status. Not one people don't,

they don't know that. There's never been a

church even find by the IRS for anything the pastor said in

the pulpit, not one. And yet our friend

Barry Lynn and others want to try to intimidate

past are saying, boy, if you do this, you're going to lose

your tax exempt status. Now, I don't believe

we ought to endorse politicians from

the pulpit. See that adds a politics, that model,

that's politics. But we ought to talk

about the issues. Ought to be

willing to do what the profits are bolded. And that is to

point a finger in the face of the

culture and say, thus says the Lord, that's the only hope

for our nation. Dr. Jeffery, the idea that you shouldn't

mix religion and politics is implying there are things that

you shouldn't bring your faith into. You've got a 10

thousand member church trying to lead them in the ways that the

Lord is there. Any area that you don't think we ought

to bring our faith? Well, for example, right? I mean, I think

liberals are guilty of politicizing what

are biblical issues. But I think a lot

of conservatives quite honestly make the mistake of Byblos sizing political issues. I mean, there are some

political issues. I mean, I know the

Bible well enough. I could argue

either side of those issues

using the Bible. But there are

some issues that the Bible doesn't

stutter about. The sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage. And I believe on

those issues that the Bible strongly

speaks about, we need to speak clearly as Christians and pastors, it's worth everything

to hear you say that. To have a pastor who is as influential as you are and being in the role

responsibility that you have to be able to say

what you just said. I wish every church

understood that well. And what I believe those listening who

aren't pastors, members of

churches can do is encourage your pastor

lovingly to speak out. And when he

does speak out, form a shield

around him to protecting from

the criticism both from within

the church and from without

the church. Listen, I think one of the biggest mistakes Christians are

making today, they're adopting

what I talk about in the book actually came

from Francis Shaffer. This silo mentality of spirituality that

says our faith is okay for us

individually, but to use our faith

to try to influence other people

or the culture at large that's

un-American, un-Christian, and it may be illegal, were taught. And yet Francis

Shaffer said, God not only cares about religious things

and religious people. Interested in government. He's interested

in the world. Jesus is Lord, not

just over the church. He's lord over government and over the universe. We need to start

acting like that. And yet, would

it be too simple though to say Dr. Jeffery, that just many of us,

we don't like conflict. We don't like

confrontation. We don't want to step

out from the crowd. We just kinda

want to blend in and we want everybody

to like us. So some of these

debates are things that just maybe

a typical mom or dad may not be comfortable waiting into sitting next to someone at

the soccer game. Well, that's right.

And yet the cost of doing nothing is

incalculable. I mean, the way we're going as a country

right now, My friend, or

when loops are, after he read the

manuscript of my book, he called me and he

said, You know, Robert, you and I went to

Dallas Seminary and we always heard

that as preachers, our job is to

preach the word of God and leave the other stuff to

other people. And everyone said, I

still believe that. But he said, you know,

if you and I don't do a few other things other than preached

the gospel. We may no longer have the freedom to

preach the gospel. And that's why

I've written this book, twilight

last gleaming. I don't believe

we're going to ultimately save America. America is going

to collapse one day because the Bible says The world is going

to collapse. But even though

we can't prevent America's ultimate

collapse, we can delay it being the salt and like God

commanded us to be, to give our country an

opportunity to hear the gospel and know

Christ as Savior. So to me it's

not an either or thing as a pastor, am I going to evangelize or am I going to be involved in social issues? It is a both and that

were called today. One of my favorite

illustrations from the scripture

along the line and what we're talking

about has to do with what happened

to John the Baptist. Jesus set of John

the Baptist, that no greater man has

been born of woman. Yet here he was in Harrods prison

at the mercy of, of a vicious, ungodly man. And while he was there, he observed that Herod was involved with

another woman. And he looked him in the

eye and said to him, it is not lawful for you to have your

brother's wife. I mean, imagine that

cost him his life. So Luann, if it makes

us uncomfortable, There's your model

right there. Yeah, it might cost

you your life. So what are you gonna

do? Remain silent. I mean, I can't

yet Dr. Dobson, there are people

today, Christians, pastors who would say, John the Baptist

had no right to talk to an

unbeliever and try to impose

his own values on an unbeliever. That's just

remarkable to me. The Old Testament

prophets, Isaiah, Jonah, all of them not only spoke to their own people, they spoke to

ungodly rulers, to an ungodly culture. We pray all of the time. Lord, thy kingdom

come thy will be done on earth as it's

being done in heaven. We are praying for God's

will to be done now, that means there's

Christians. We've got to try

to influence the world so that God's will is done not just in the

church house, but in the courthouse

and every other avenue, a lot less gone to, to John the

Baptist's again, where people were coming out to see him in

the wilderness. And in column a

generation of vipers, they were hardly

godly people. A generation of vipers

and told him to go bring back meet for

repentance, cetera. I mean, he was talking to, not to the church, not to his followers. He was talking to the

culture at large. I think that's

our obligation. Well, and I talk

about in my book, the threefold

calling of a pastor. I believe folks, that the preservation

of America, proclamation of the

gospel depends upon the local church

fulfilling that's calling the local church is the hope for America. But the local churches fulfilling their mission depends upon pastors fulfilling their calling. It's a threefold calling is to be a preacher

of the Word. So many sermons today

could have been just as easily delivered

by Deepak Chopra. Is that good a man of God? We're to preach the Word. Where to be evangelists. The Bible says equipping people to share

their faith. But we're also called

the B a profit. And that's the

missing ingredient today being the profit. Dr. Jeff, there are

pastors out there saying, I believe you, I've

got that fire. And yet if I go

about my pulpit on Sunday and start

preaching these things, I'm ever going to

make a budget again. I'm going to have

half my charge leave because

we've conditioned congregation

members to come for a program and to come verso not for these

three things. What do you say

to pastors? And we're barely

making it as it is. If I get involved in

this, we're done. Well, I would say,

first of all, people are hungry to hear a man of God who

has conviction. I think you will

be surprised. I'll be honest with you. I went 15 years

in my ministry without ever talking

about social issues. And I say that

to my shame. I thought my job

was to preach the Word and not get involved in these

other things. I went 15 years

without doing that. And in my church

in Wichita Falls, we had a controversy in the local community about these two gay books. Heather has to mommy's

and daddy's roommate and library and brought

them to me and said, What are you gonna

do about this pastor and I was preaching and Genesis 19 about Sodom and Gomorrah. I'd already done my

sermon for the week. And one of my

application points was, we cannot afford to condone what God

is condemned. And when I stood up there before in the pulpit, I said, my conscience will not allow me to

remain quiet on this. I had those two library

books and I said, I'm not going to

give these books back on keeping them. What that caused

a firestorm in our city About My not returning those

library books, but went into a

national controversy. Pbs came and did a, an hour documentary on

this pastor who had split a town and

how they were divided over these issues. They interviewed

the authors of the book, all of this, it was a two-year

controversy that ended up in a

federal lawsuit. And I wish I could

say r9 that during that time the church

exploded in growth. It didn't. We recalled hateful

and bigoted for two years in the newspaper and the letters

to the editor. But I knew I was doing what God had

called me to do. And whether or

not your church grows or declines. That's really

not the issue. We're all going

to stand before the judgment

seat of Christ, and we're going to

give an answer to God for what we've

done with the flock. He's interested to God bless you for

that, whoever is. You have written this book that you mentioned, that this is your latest isn't That's

right out of 18. Twilight last gleaming. How America's last days can be your best days. Are we in America's

last days? Or Dr. Dobson? Alan

combs on Fox News. Our friend asked me about this the

other night. He said No, wait

a minute from this tide or you,

harold camping, that guy who's predicting the date of the rapture, I said on harold camping

without the dates. Don't know when this

is going to happen. It may be ten years

or 1000 years. But I know America

is going to end and I believe why

we can't prevent it, we can delay it. Now my own feeling is we're probably closer to the end than anyone

would like to imagine. And the reason

I believe that is I believe there had been three

explosive decisions by the Supreme Court in the last 50 years that

if so weak and our spiritual and

social structure as a nation that are

implosion is inevitable. And I talk about

those three decisions in the

book, you know, in 960 to angle

versus Batali, which removed

the voluntary prayers from the school. All of the decisions that have cascaded down from that decision that have

made government not neutral but hostile

toward Christianity. And then in 1973, of

course, Roe v Wade, that has resulted

in 40 million unborn children at least being murdered in

the way I think is closer to 50.

That's right. And what's interesting is, we're hearing

this year, nobody cares about

social issues. It's about the economy. I quote a study in

my book that says, if those 40 million

children had been allowed to live and grow into

productive citizens, we would no longer have a social security

or medicare crisis because

those children would be pain

into the system. One estimate says

there had been $70 trillion

lost and gross national product

from the murder of 40 or 50 million

unborn children. So there are children of those children to guess. If it goes, that goes all the way back to 1973. So it may be 80

million Americans that disappeared

as a result of that one stupid, arrogant decision by the US Supreme

Court lets it, you can't kill

20% almost of your population

and not have economic repercussions

of that. So that's a

second decision. And then the third

decision, 2003, which are listeners

may not be as familiar with the

Lawrence versus Texas decision in which

the Supreme Court really paved the way

for same-sex marriages. Most people believe

that this prop eight ruling that will eventually go to

the Supreme Court, that Justice Kennedy will use the same

reasoning he did in the Lawrence decision

to strike down all state laws prohibiting

same-sex marriage. Now think about it. When you first of all, remove prayer and make government hostile

toward Christianity when you allow for

the murder of the unborn and when you absolutely redefined the most basic

institutions of society, marriage and the

home, if so, destroyed the spiritual and

moral structure of our nation that we're going to collapse

on ourselves. We are going to implode. It's only a question of

when we talked about the church not being directly involved

in politics, at least not naming candidates from

the pulpit. And so I don't

want to go there, but I do want to say that we have an

election coming up. And you better think about the Supreme Court

and who will be appointed by the

various candidates that are putting

themselves forward. Because if, if we

lose that and we get two more very

liberal justices in the next four years, or maybe three or four. This country won't

come back from that. That's right. And both

political parties and candidates for those political

officers are being very clear about what kind of justices they

will nominate. So you really need to do your homework and study. They're making it

very clear what the litmus test are going

to be for Justices. Dr. Jeffery. So this

time has gone by far too quickly and you have come here

to be with this. I'm not going

to let you get away with one program. Let's, let's pick up here next time talking a little more

about your book, twilight S last gleaming. How America's last

days can be your best. We've talked about it

being the last days. Perhaps. Nobody

knows the date, but we can all

see that we're moving towards some

kind of climax. But we haven't

talked about how they can be

your best days. And I'm going to ask you to do that next time. I'll look forward to it. That sounds great.

We've got a lot of friends in your

church and we also have a lot of friends

at Casey BI and there's an affiliation between the church and

that station. And then of

course in Dallas, there's also kW ERD

and Katie x. G, who also carry

family talk. Please convey are regards to them for what they're doing and our

great appreciation for carrying our program. I certainly well, Dr. Dobson, blessings to you. Thank you. And I will invite all of our friends

to be with us tomorrow for more with

Dr. Robert Jeffress, that Ryan what a pleasure it has been to make his

acquaintance today? Well, we said earlier

he might be new to us, but to so many of our listeners are

already fans. And if you'd like

to get a copy of the book we

discussed today. Again, the title is

twilight last gleaming. We have that

available here at family talk requested

at Dr. James Dobson.org or when you call us and that number to call 87773 to 6825. Thanks so much

for listening. And this is Ryan Dobson

saying, God bless, and we'll see you next time for another edition of Dr. James

Dobson family top.

Being a Conservative Crusader - II

Thanks so much for

stopping by today for this edition of Dr. James Thompson

family talk. I'm Luann crane here with my co-host,

right enough. And and our host,

a psychologist and author and my dad, Dr. James Dobson and I am excited to

get started today, dad million

because we have another day of

conversation planned with a new friend who is a passionate defender of righteousness

and the culture. Wasn't that a

good program? Yes. Yeah. Happy thoughts. Dr. Robert Jeffress

did a good job. We've invited him

back this time. In fact, we only met right before that

broadcast last time, and we have many

mutual friends, but the first time he's

been to family dog, Dr. Jeffery is

the senior pastor of First Baptist Church

of Dallas, texas. And it's quite true

that he is not at all shy preaching the truth of

Scripture two is 10 thousand member

congregation every Sunday morning. Dr. Jeffery is also an

accomplished author. His newest book was the topic of our

discussion last time, and it says untitled

twilight last gleaming. How America's last days can be your best days. Now, we've already covered a lot of ground

with the men, talked at length about how the Lord

has called him. And really all

of us to take a stand in a

public square for the Judeo-Christian

values that are so close to our hearts and our foundational to the future of

this country. Well, dr, this would

be a good time to just remind

folks that if they missed that

conversation last time, they can listen in or

request a CD copy of our first day with Dr. Jeffery, dr. James

Thompson.org. Well, Dr. Jeffery

will welcome back to family talk. My goodness that

the program went by too fast

last time zone. It is good to

have you here as somebody thinks I want to talk to you about, let's plunge right in. Okay. You've had a

very interesting life and so of I, you grew up in the

church and so did I. You found the Lord when you were four years old? Found the Lord

when I was three. So B2B year, I've always

known ever had I, not only that, but you tell a story in the book about B

and on a game show. And so was I know, yeah, I don't like

Nadella said story. We had gone to our

first passed right. And I didn't have

enough money for a car. We needed a new car

and I thought, well, what's the best way to

get some quick money? And so I thought,

well, I'll go on a game show. And so I watched

for the program that gave away

the most cash. And I taped the show every day and

watched it at night, learned how to

play it, and took last money we add in our

checking account, flew to Hollywood,

went over to Mark good some productions

and they had 250 people trying out for three spots

on the show. I auditioned,

got on the show, went to CBS The next

day tape five Shows was the five-day

champion on the show, got

enough money. Most of it for a

car, flew home. It'll all night

and got there in time to reach the

next morning. What was the name

of this hill? Oh, I don't want

to insult anybody. Know. It's called card sharks. And a ours in

my first church as a pastor and I was

afraid to tell my conquered that I've got it down or so-called

guard sharks guy. I didn't telling body, but when it started

airing nationally, they picked up real quick. Did you ever hear of a program called

Let's Make a Deal? I was on Let's

Make a Deal. Come in and I was, came on as a giant banana in a full banana

out areas. And it was back when I was a youth minister back in 990 for it first Madras, Dallas and anything I did, I went $350 that day. And what's so funny

is Dr. Dobson, the show's keep

playing on forever, never on the work. They even keep

playing today. And not long ago, they were playing my Let's Make a Deal thing from 25 years ago and a little child and the church rain

in and said, Mommy, mommy, the pastors on TV and he's a banana. So be sure and I will find you

owe me out too, because I was on it. Do what you want and

let's make a deal. Absolutely. Shirley

and I were we had a friend who

had tickets and she couldn't use them

and gave them to us. We had no idea

what we were doing and we went down there and like you were in this big

auditorium where they were choosing the

contestants and surely had these cloth

burns all over her. I mean, they're

everywhere in her hair and on her shoulder. And I was carrying a sign that said My wife

is for the Berg. I'm really, really funny. Yeah. That is great stuff. I was 960 a day and

I had just finished my work at USC and we were broke as church mice. And I thought, you know, how nice it would be

that when a new car. Yeah. Because what we had was really

pretty beat up. And and so surely

is very vibrations and she began putting on her antics and she got

them to choose us. So we were

contestants and we had three doors to choose from. You

know, how that works? Yes. And they brought out a vacuum cleaner and they said If you can

get within $3, so the cost of this

vacuum cleaner, then you get a new Camaro. Are you hitting? I make green. Mouth was watering. Irs has come marrow

sitting out there and I could win it if I

could get what then $3. And so we had to

make our choice and I missed it by $25. I don't want it

anywhere near. And so I got $3

and a vacuum. That's all I got. We went home just sick. Absolutely sick because

we had blown it. You have given me great

cover from now on. Anytime anybody

I says May, I can say Well, Dr.

Dobson did it to you. Well, I didn't I

didn't give anything. If somebody could send us the film of you on,

let's make a deal. You know, I had a crooked I was a weird

looking guy and I don't know who

you can make money off that line. Didn't do that. But if the telephone

start ringing, that family talk all of

a sudden you'll know they started their doctor adopts this program. We were only 30 minutes

away from that show. Yeah, it was in Burbank? Yes. So it was easy for

us to go with. That's the only

time I ever did. It was not profitable. Now, I want to ask you question that you

answer in your book. We talked last time about the fact

that we're not going to endorse

political candidates, either on family talk or the First Baptist

Church, cetera. But call it at least

not from the pulpit. I have indoor somebody personal and I

have to yeah. Yes, but without linking it to a non-profit

organization. But we can talk about some principles try

that you need to implement in choosing

the candidates that you vote for. Or have. We don't want to get cross a line

in the summer. I'm that's illegal, but talk about and you

know, is a pastor, Dr. Dobson, I don't

like my people want me to tell them

for whom to vote. I think that they feel like they're

competent to make up their own mind that they can

figure that out. But they do look to

all of us who are in spiritual

leadership for some criteria to use and

selecting the candidate. And one of the

chapters in my book, twilight S last

gleaming is about how a Christian

should vote. And I give for questions I believe we ought

to ask about any candidate, especially

for precedent. Question number one, is the candidate a Christian? I've been amazed at

how many people have taken me to task for

that question saying, Oh, you shouldn't

even consider a candidate's faith. It was John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme

Court, who said, God has given us

both the privilege and the duty in this Christian nation to prefer and select

Christians as our leaders. Now I don't believe

being a Christian automatically qualify somebody to be precedent, but I do believe given

the choice between a competent Christian and a competent

non-Christian, it make sense to vote for a competent Christian? Wouldn't it give

you comfort to know somebody is in the Oval Office

who is being led not only by

the best advisors, but by the Holy

Spirit of God, there is great benefit. Having a Godly leader

of the proverb says, when the godly rule,

the people rejoice. So that's question

number one. Question number

two, how does the candidate's faith

impact his policies? There's some

candidate to say my personal faith has no impact on my

public policy. Now, I say any

professing Christian who would say his

personal faith has no impact on how

he would govern is either a shallow Christian or a dishonest politician. I mean, if our faith is really important to us, it impacts every part of our life, including

our vocation. Question number

3, how does the candidates policies

align with the Bible? We said in the

last program, I, I don't think

that the Bible speaks to every

political issue, but the Bible does

speak clearly about issues like the

sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage, the treatment of the poor. And I believe we have

every right to measure a candidate's

policies against the unchanging Word

of God, absolute. And then question

number four, how does the candidate

view the Constitution? Is he a constructionist that is believing that judges he would

appoint ought to abide by the words

of the Constitution? Are, Is he an

expansionist, one who believes that

judges had the liberty? To create imaginary rights for some group

of Americans while erasing the

very real rights of other Americans that are

in the Constitution. And we're seeing that

run a muck right now. The idea of expansionism

in the constitution, we are taking away

the rights of the church were taken

away the rights of Christians in

order to grant these imaginary rights

to some individuals. And so I think especially in this next election, dr. Dobson, this is going to be an

important question. Dr. Jeff, what do you say to people who

would call you a one issue voter on something like the

sanctity of human life. All I've got to

at least or no. Here's how I would

answer that. Ryan. And I think many people would be surprised when we

answer this ways. Christians, I would concede that is

conservatives. Many times we make a mistake of what I

call Byblos sizing. What are political issues? I don't believe the

Bible speaks to every political issue

in America today. And I think that take such a hard line against secondary issues of which there's room for

disagreement. I think it really

diminishes our witness, but I think we ought

to can see that. Yes, I'm going to stand

firm on the issues that the Bible talks

about and say, there are a few

of those issues that are really crucial, like the sanctity of life that protects

the unborn, like the sanctity

of marriage that protects the most

important institution, the most basic institution in American

society, the home. And I believe those are important issues

to stand for. Dr. Jeffery earlier

this month, there was a presidential prayer breakfast

in Washington DC. This is not the

National Day of Prayer, which occurs the first

Thursday in May. This is a completely

different thing. I've been to that

prayer event. The number of times

the President speaks, the Vice-President

often speaks and then they bring

other people. And for me, the House

or Senate or somebody like Mother Teresa was there one year

when I was there. But on the most recent presidential

prayer breakfast where President

Obama spoke, he took the teachings

of Jesus and I think twisted them to endorse

his tax policy. And man, it was a stretch

and it offended me. Did you read or hear

about what he did there? I did. Yeah. You just said that the Bible doesn't

speak to every issue. Well, this was an

example of it. Yeah. I didn't speak

to that thing. I'm sure, you

know, having to do with the taxes and how they're allocated

than a lot of things that the Bible didn't really

address at all. That's exactly

right. And I mean, I can make the

point about taxes. I can use the story of Joseph to support

high taxation, and I can use the story of Rehoboam to support low taxations bottom and you can argue

it either way. But I think that is prostitute in the

Bible to try to use the Bible to speak to either conservative

or liberal policies that aren't really the

message of Scripture. That's a strong statement. I think the issue is, we ought to speak

clearly about the issues about which the Bible speaks clearly. I agree. Another issue

that I've really look forward to talking to you about it has to do with religious liberty, which everybody's

talking about it today. Who would have

believed it? Was six months ago? It was all about the economy and taxation

and other things. And now the social issues have come to the fore. And one of those issues that especially the

Catholic Church, but also evangelicals

are talking about, has to do with the

intrusion of government into the church and then to the religious

institutions. Talk about bright,

as you've said, We're not here to endorse or denounce any candidate, but it is absolutely sure that there

is an attempt by this administration

to reach into the church

and to limit churches rights under

the Constitution to freely exercise

their religion. People who think that

this latest attempt to control the

contraception issue is a Catholic issue. They were making a

big mistake to think this is solely

limited to Catholics. It was this administration that just a few months ago was in court arguing that religious exclusions

for hiring practices in churches

ought to be removed. Yeah, that's the one where the Supreme

Court struck it. Absolutely nothing. Yeah, but it was amazing. My friend kelly

Shackelford was there giving one of

the arguments against the

administration, but to hear that if the administration

had its way, that they would

remove those religious exclusions, which means churches would have to hire homosexuals. They would have to do

things that violate their most core beliefs. And that is where

we're going unless we stand up and say

enough is enough. And that's why I believe

it is absolutely paramount for

Christians to get involved in

this process. And again, we're

speaking people who are Democrats,

Republicans, independents. I understand that. But understand this. In the last election, 2830 million

evangelical Christians sat at home and

didn't vote. Election was won by

10 million votes. Do you put part of the responsibility

for that on pastures didn't urge their

parishioners to register and vote? Yes, I do. And I think it extends

beyond pastors, elders, deacons,

to church leaders. Again, nobody wants

to come to church and hear political

sermon every week. Our job is to preach

the word of God. But the word of

God so Often intersex culture

and where we are, we must stand up. We must speak about

these issues and we must encourage our

people to be solved. When Jesus said You are the salt of the earth, salt was a preservative. Salt, did not prevent

the rotting of made. It only delayed it, it only gave them meet

a longer shelf-life. Eventually the meat

had to be thrown out. Well, when Jesus said where the salt

with the world, we are the

preserving influence in this world today, we're not going to prevent America's collapse or

the world's collapse. But we can give America more time so that we have an opportunity to

preach the gospel. Think about the

story about Jonah. God said to Jonah, he was going to destroy the wicked city

of Nineveh. That was a pronouncement. And yet in Jonah three, God changed his mind. No, I don't

understand that. That's above my

pay grade to understand how

God did that. But because of the

preaching of Jonah, because of the repentance of the Nineveh bytes, God delayed is judgment

against Nineveh. Now, interestingly, he ultimately

destroyed Nineveh, but he gave Nineveh more time because of the righteous

actions of Jonah. That's what we need

to do for America. Where did you get the courage to

talk like this and a breach like

this and to write like this in twilight

S last gleaming, where did that come from? Well, I, first of all

don't pretend to be the only are doing

this doctor dance and not in a that are not. There are many

pastors who are out there taking

courageous stands. But there was

something about when I hit my 40th birthday and then

my 50th birthday, I did the arithmetic

and I took the age 80 and I

subtracted my age. And I said, you

know, whether or not Americas in its

last years. I'm in my last years. Either he's coming

around going, but sooner or later I

am going to meet him, they end is coming for me. Even if it

doesn't come for America right away. I want to be able

to hear the words, well done, good and

faithful servant. I don't care what

people think about me. I love my church members. I really don't care what they think about

me though. I give an account to

God for what I do. And I believe

when a man of God understands

that truth that we answered to

God and God only, it gives you a

great courage, just like you Dr.

Dobson on me, we're all people who

have learned from you about taking

unpopular stands. Well, it's been a pleasure to carry the banner. I feel like the Lord

is pleased with me. I don't really care

who criticizes me. Frankly, criticism

from the church and my brothers and

sisters bothers me more than the worst that the media and the

far-left can do to me. But I'd like to ask you to address the subtitle

of this book. It is how America's last days can be

your best days. At the end of the

program last time I said I was going to

ask you about this. How can a world

falling apart? And I think in Proverbs it says it's the

foundations be destroyed. What can the righteous do? We all get

caught up in it. When everything crumbles? How can those be

good days for us? You know, our mutual

friend Bob bail says, every life is either self-focused or

God focused. It's one or the other. It can't be both. If our life is self-focus, if it's about pleasure and profits and the

avoidance of pain, then surely we

are going to be disturbed by what we're

seeing in the news. Our whole world is

being threatened. Our life has got focused. If our agenda here is to make disciples

for Christ, if that's our agenda, then we can see how these collapsing

world circumstances actually help us

spread the gospel. Think about

Paul. He was in prison because of an

ungodly Roman Empire, much more hostile to Christianity

than America is. And yet he said, I rejoice

in this situation. I want you to know that

my imprisonment has turned out for the

progress of the gospel. Now if Paul's goal in

life had been pleasure and the avoidance

of pain and peace. Why his imprisonment

was a great tragedy. But Paul had a purpose in life bigger than himself. He turned to those

Philippians and Chapter 2, and he said In

the same way, in the midst of this crooked and

perverse generation, you were to be

children of light, holding out the

word of life. And you know

what Dr. Dobson, the darker the background, the brighter the light. And that's why these days can be our best days. As the world becomes

more and more hopeless, it makes the hope

of the gospel shine that much

more brightly. And you've really

taken advantage of those opportunities that we mentioned

last time. All of the appearances

you've done on television and radio, many of those are secular and what we would consider perhaps hostile to our Judeo-Christian

beliefs. But you actually have, in a sense, one over some of those people

haven't yet. Well. We did. God has given some great opportunities, again that pale in

comparison to Dr. Dobson. But I think when God opens those doors

of opportunity, we need to take them. And what I've found

is that so many, even non-Christians, they know something's not right in our country. They know things

aren't working. You know, the

latest wrong track, right track poll

showed 73% of Americans think

our country is headed on the

wrong track. I think if we will respond to people

graciously, we don't have to be

foaming at the mouth. Fundamentalist, we

can be gracious. We can be firm though

in our convictions, people will listen to us. You know, I like

to think about the example of Jesus. I call it the

perfect example of the velvet

covered brick. I mean, he was soft

when it came to people, but he was hard and

his convictions people can tell if you

come with compassion, can yes, they can. And I think I'd

never have, we had a better time in American history right now to share the gospel than we do in

this culture. And that's why I

say Dr. Dobson, these last days for

America really can't be our best days as

long as our life has got focused and

not self-focused. Let's in this

second interview, right where we started The first when you arrived here in preparation for the first program, Ryan, you came in, we all sat down and Laura, your wife, came in with

little Lucy Rose, who's just a few weeks

old now in her arms. And it was a very

special moment. Going back to that, you worry about this next generation that's

coming up, the kids that are

around our knees today, that that really does put a lump in my

throat I'm going to make is committed in even if it cost

me my life. That's not the worst thing that could happen to me. But I worry about

those kids. Know what the world

is going to be like in 2030 years? Yeah. I do. I have two daughters and some point

in the future, we'll have grandchildren

like you have. And yes, I'm

concerned about what their world is

going to be like. And that's why I'm

not ready to give up. Just like you're not

ready to give up. My book is not

doom and gloom. It's saying we do have an opportunity to

make a difference. But Dr. Dobson,

it's going to mean we don't retire

from the cause. It means we don't give up. It means we are willing

to push back against evil with every ounce of strength God gives us. That is our calling, that's our responsibility, our opportunity

as Christians. It's been very

inspirational talking to you today

and yesterday. And I look forward to

visiting your church. One of these days, when is the new facility

going to be done? We opened on Easter

Sunday up 2013, so we're just about a

little more than a year away and we would love to have you and

shortly there, we'll put you up at

the Fairmont Hotel. Bless you, my friend, and give our regards

to our friends at Dallas First

Baptist Church. Thank you, Dr. Dobson. Well, it's been

wonderful getting to know you Pastor and Luann. I hope every parent

and grandparent, every Christian

Listening is ready to make a stand for righteousness

in the culture. Well, I could

have said Ryan, Lucy is dependent, isn't. A great way to

get started is by reading Dr.

Jefferson's book, again, the title,

twilight last gleaming. I would urge

you to request that when you call us

our phone number here, family talk,

877732682587773268, 25. Or look for that title at Dr. James Dobson.org. Well, thanks

for listening. This is Ryan Dobson

saying God bless, and we'll see you again for another edition of Dr. James Dobson

family talk.