Compare and Contrast

Lisette Shashoua

Lisette Shashoua

[00:00:10] Lisette Shashoua: David?

[00:00:12] Interviewer: Yes dear?

[00:00:12] Lisette Shashoua: For me to hide my wrinkles I'll sit like that.

[00:00:15] Interviewer: We're doing our best.

[00:00:24] Interviewer: Interview with Lisette Shashoua.

[00:00:30] Lisette Shashoua: We started already?

[00:00:32] Interviewer: We started. But you have to wait for me now. Okay.

[00:00:43] Interviewer: So to begin, um, so what is your name and when, at what grade did you leave Frank Eny?

[00:00:51] Lisette Shashoua: My name is Lisette Shashoua. I left Frank Eny, I graduated, it's the fifth secondary it's called. So I uh, graduated in '66. '65-'66 plutôt.

[00:01:10] Interviewer: And in the wedding footage...

[00:01:11] Lisette Shashoua: Yes.

[00:01:12] Interviewer: You're all doing the twist. So what's a bunch of Jewish kids in Baghdad doing the twist?

[00:01:19] Lisette Shashoua: We were very modern. We were very influenced by uh, by all the American movies, we were, you know, we were catching up with uh, Elvis Presley at the time, the Beatles, the twist, of course, when it first came out. Chubby Checker. We were very into the latest I mean, the movies came to Iraq and we only watched uh, American movies, or British movies, or French for that matter. [00:01:50] We never went, very rarely went to Arabic movies and the ones that were really spectacular, the Egyptian ones, but otherwise uh, our, our whole culture was more British than anything else.

[00:02:04] Interviewer: So you were just ids like anywhere else in the world?

[00:02:07] Lisette Shashoua: Yes. Yes, we were trying to always keep up with what's going on in the world like, as a child, I have travelled and I met people and cousins and I kept imagining them doing all those things so we all had to keep up and do the same thing. And we did.

[00:02:27] Interviewer: And do you remember who you were...

[00:02:29] [technical adjustment]

[00:03:06] Interviewer: Why, you , the very first film you sent me was in black and white, a bunch of kids dancing, no audio track. So why can't I find that?

[00:03:17] Lisette Shashoua: I have no idea, honestly.

[00:03:18] Interviewer: Do you have it? You must have it. Because you have to have sent it to me.

[00:03:22] Lisette Shashoua: I must have but I must tell you, this might be I'm not sure but I think it might be of her dancing party we had but it really isn't my film and I don't have permission, really to use it.

[00:03:39] Interviewer: Whose film is it?

[00:03:40] Lisette Shashoua: It's somebody in London who, if it's that one, in fact [overlap]

[00:03:47] Interviewer: Is it you? Is it your group?

[00:03:48] Lisette Shashoua: It's my group but they live in London and they're very anal and uh, I don't think, I think it was unique that he did the favour and gave me the video because I....

[00:04:01] Interviewer: Because I obviously saw it.

[00:04:02] Lisette Shashoua: You might have.

[00:04:04] Interviewer: I did.

[00:04:05] Lisette Shashoua: And the video, actually, they did go to Kurdistan before, ten years before, you know, Kurdistan where we escaped from, Kurdistan, right? And, and then there's a gentleman who is in, he's 91 now, unfortunately he refused to give an interview but he um, am I being filmed?

[00:04:29] Interviewer: No.

[00:04:29] Lisette Shashoua: Yeah, but he said this was the place where, the hotel where they stayed and it became, afterwards, the headquarters of the Kurds, of the Kurdish leader who helped us get out. So...

[00:04:44] Interviewer: We'll talk about this because I want to get a hold of this film.

[00:04:47] Lisette Shashoua: I don't think I'm allowed to show it if it's that. I don't think I'm allowed to show it unless I take permission from them.

[00:04:55] Interviewer: We have to try. Anyway, we don't need to worry about it right now. Okay, let's go back to the wedding and we're dancing at the wedding.

[00:05:03] Lisette Shashoua: Yes.

[00:05:04] Interviewer: So, who are you dancing with?

[00:05:06] Lisette Shashoua: I think I was dancing with a few people. One of them was Richard Obadiah, the son of our, the principal of our school. And uh, I guess we were dancing uh, en groupe with everybody else.

[00:05:21] Interviewer: Did you have a sweetheart then?

[00:05:23] Lisette Shashoua: I did.

[00:05:24] Interviewer: Is it anyone who is going to be here?

[00:05:25] Lisette Shashoua: No. No.

[00:05:27] Interviewer: Are you sure?

[00:05:28] Lisette Shashoua: I'm sure. He's in London.

[00:05:30] Interviewer: He's in London and he's not coming.

[00:05:32] Lisette Shashoua: No. And he's happily married and he's a grandfather.

[00:05:35] Interviewer: That's good! That's wonderful. I'm so happy. But if he was here that would be really great. Okay, let's talk about Joe Shuker's bar mitzvah. What do you, what do you remember about that one?

[00:05:46] Lisette Shashoua: Joe Shuker's bar mitzvah uh, was probably one of the first bar mitzvah's I've ever been to and one of the very few, I may have been to three or four altogether. And it was much more kind of, uh, exciting or lavish than the bar mitzvahs usually are because there was dancing and, and there was filming. [00:06:12] Which, usually, we just took pic - or took pictures of mar mitzvahs so it was really very special and uh, of course, seeing the movie I remember we were dancing the hokey-pokey. It wasn't the hali-bali, it was the hokey-pokey.

[00:06:26] Interviewer: It was the Mexican hat dance.

[00:06:26] Lisette Shashoua: Yes. Is that what it is? Yes.

[00:06:31] Interviewer: Now all of these events, these big events took place at the school. So why, what was it about the school...

[00:06:37] Lisette Shashoua: No, no, the bar mitzvah was at their house.

[00:06:41] Interviewer: Oh, okay, sorry, I thought it was at the school. But the wedding was at, sorry, the wedding was at the school.

[00:06:47] Lisette Shashoua: No, you know what? The ceremony used to be at the school instead of sometimes it would be at the synagogue and sometimes it would be at the school. The ceremony was often in the school but the actual party was in a cloud that we belonged to because that was before the '67 war. After the '67 war, all the Jews were uh, were kicked out of all the clubs immediately. [00:07:20] You know, one day you go to the club and you see a sign, all those uh, nun...something like...non-likeable people or, you know, not, not accepted people or something are, are kicked out of the clubs. And all the Jewish names were listed, like a hundred names maybe. So it was horrible.

[00:07:48] Interviewer: But there were social events at the school, were there not? or was it just...

[00:07:53] Lisette Shashoua: [overlap] There were, there were play at the school, there were a time when they gave uh, you know, once a year, they would give medals and, you know, for excellence. Uh, there were some but most ceremonies, wedding ceremonies were at the school, but the actual party if there's dancing it was not at the school. They were not equipped for that. So the one who wanted to be lavish, which, this particular wedding was one of the few, there were a few more along that same time that were done at hotels. [00:08:29] There was a hotel called Baghdad hotel there was another wedding there. The actual dancing part was in hotels or at clubs. Before we were kicked out of everything. Like, after '67 war nobody did anymore weddings. That was like a year or two before.

[00:08:50] Interviewer: Let's talk, lets go to the school now. So, so, why, why did you have to learn so many languages You did four languages?

[00:08:59] Lisette Shashoua: Yes.

[00:08:59] Interviewer: Why?

[00:08:59] Lisette Shashoua: We, at age five we were in first grade, we, we learned that alphabet in Arabic, English, French and Hebrew because, I think they were very aware of how important education was and they were very aware that uh, and, and we wanted to - I mean, nobody even analyzed why. I mean, this was the curriculum and you did it and, I think it was to equip us for being...[00:09:30] And that came in very handy to equip us for the world. And I remember one of our teachers who is still alive, Setsem Ha [?] she lives in Israel now. She is 96 or 97 and, in fact, I'm gonna call her and see what message she has for us, which she gave us the last reunion. [00:09:52] Um, she used to tell us, uh you, the, the, you are, your, your weapons in life or your, your dowry in life plutôt is your education. You have to study. And she was very right because we all left with nothing and had it not been for our education we would not have been able to advance in life.

[00:10:19] Interviewer: And it also seems to me as if education was very egalitarian. Girls, boys...

[00:10:26] Lisette Shashoua: Oh yeah, we were in the same class, all of us. And I had to study things I hated like calculus and advanced calculus and physics and advanced physics and advanced uh, you know, geometry and algebra and calculus. I mean, these were not something somebody who likes art would be interesting. [00:10:48] But it was also the father of Richard Obadiah who was the principal and he was very much pushing for science and I think he was trying to equip, especially the boys, even though, you know, the girls never expected to be working in science, sci, science and stuff but a few of them excelled. [00:11:10] And uh, the students who, who graduated from Frank Eny a lot of them were MIT, went to the MIT and they got so many compliments from the MIT to our - that he felt, he has to equip us all to go to the MIT and the sciences, you know? Rather than arts, which is what I would have been interested in.

[00:11:37] Interviewer: And how strict was the school?

[00:11:41] Lisette Shashoua: Very. I'm sure everybody told you that. Very strict. Very. We were afraid of the teachers. We were afraid of our principal. Every time the principal came we too, stood up. He used to, he used to walk with plastic shoes so you don't hear his steps so he used to like steal his way and, you know, look at us like, look at everybody in the class and study how everybody's sitting, how everybody - if somebody is talking. [00:12:11] And they very easily kicked people out of class if you did one thing wrong, if you talked, if you laughed in class. It was very, very strict and it's also sad because we had no chance for our, you know, we were young and we were active but there was no art. There was no, there was no exercises. [00:12:34] There was a playground that we belonged to that belonged to the school and you went to it on Saturdays or in your free time and it was looked down upon instead of being admired like everywhere else in the world, sports, sports with us, the ones who excelled in sports were considered bums. And the ones who won medals in sports were looked down upon. [00:13:02] You know? I mean this, it was all upside down.

[00:13:07] Interviewer: Let's hold for a second. [technical discussion] [00:13:24] How did the school encourage students to excel in getting, in getting good grades and doing well in school?

[00:13:31] Lisette Shashoua: Well, we used to get marks and, you know, every three months we had uh, terms marks and we had exams. And, you know, we went to school six days a week, we only had Saturday off and uh, on Sunday we always had three exams so we had to study all of Saturday, you know? [00:13:56] Three exams in one day and we had to study for each and sometimes you had to cram. Like me, the physics and etc. I had to cram for it. I didn't enjoy it, you know? And that was, not very uh, uh, you know, I don't think it builds your confidence so much and they did try to kind of put us all in one mould, treat us all the same way, expecting us all to come out like out of the factory, the same way. [00:14:28] But it was very strict and yet, look, without realizing, in spite of all the hardships that happened in Iraq and the revolutions and ki - killing the king and stuff, we were all together. We were in a way protected and we did not realize that, you know, how protected we are. And of course when we left Iraq we all went our own way. We didn't - we didn't even want to meet each other, know of each other...at the time, because you each wanted to forge your new life, you know? [00:15:00] And then, it seems it's like family, like, you know, a big family. And uh...and whether we knew each other well, whether we knew each other's names, we knew, just knew each other's faces, it, it's nostalgic now and the more time passes the more you realize how precious this was. And the funny part was, for this reunion that we have, um, Frank Eny himself, who built the school had five children, or six, I'm not sure. [00:15:37] And none of them went to the school. He build the school and they left Iraq, they went to Belgium and then they went to the states and all that. So he left Iraq, his children didn't come to the school, they don't know it, they didn't see the building. His grandchildren grew up in Canada and in England and all that and they, I'm sorry, I mean in the States and the great-grandchildren, they know nothing about it. [00:16:05] Yet, what I was saying, for this reunion, I really wanted everybody to come. I wanted his family, his children, his grandchildren, as many of them to come and I, I hope we convinced at least two of his children and a few of the grandchildren, Carol Basrie and George Eny, at least those two are gonna be coming. Gregory Eny is a very uh, well-known uh, uh....[00:16:33] He talks on the radio about cars. It's a non-profit organization, that's his grandson, but he never, he knew his grandfather but he never knew anything about the school. So I'm trying to get the two families to get to know each other. The fam - the "real family" of Frank Eny and the family that Frank Any managed to build all us, the students, there must be more than a thousand of us altogether now spread out in the world. [00:17:04] And, and I feel it's very important for the two families to get to know each other. And it's exciting.

[00:17:15] Interviewer: What's your, do you have a favourite memory of the school?

[00:17:25] Lisette Shashoua: We went to - I personally went to two schools. I went to Nahaim, which was elementary which was more kinder in treatment...

[00:17:35] Interviewer: Let's stick with Frank Eny.

[00:17:36] Lisette Shashoua: Okay, and Frank Eny. I guess it's...being...being in class, growing up together with the boys and girls and it being very natural being with each other. We weren't, you know, we felt it very comfortable with each other and then when we started to grow up and go to parties and birthday party and, I mean, we did go to birthday parties when we were young but dancing parties. [00:18:07] And starting to have uh, you know, puppy love and starting to love somebody and uh, of course, uh, getting the prizes. I as given a prize of uh, most popular girl in class once. And uh, and uh, the wedding ceremonies and the uh, picnics that we started to take when we became teenagers. [00:18:35] And the first picnic, and probably the only one that my class went to with our teacher, there was a girl who, she was our doctor. Everybody. There was one, a few Jewish doctors, his name was [?]. His daughter, Joyce, came from uh, came from the States and brought the Beatles record with her. [00:19:01] And we danced to that Beatles record the whole time. The whole picnic. And that's when we started to get to know the Beatles and follow and, and then get the music and, and, I think that was just, you know, she was like, a breath of fresh air that came from the States because by then not too many Jews could travel anymore. And he bringing this record with her and then all the dances, you know? [00:19:29] The hokey-pokey and etc. I think this was the most fun part. Of course, we couldn't dance at school, we couldn't even dance in the break but uh, but...our connection with each other. I think the bonds of people, and the education.

[00:19:47] Interviewer: And what's the other side? What's the least favourite aspect of the school?

[00:19:52] Lisette Shashoua: The strictness. The strictness. The fact that there was, they didn't let us be happy-go-lucky kids in that class - in this class, in the school. like, in, in Nahaim Daniel the school before I remember my mom chose it at the time, she said they are nicer to the students and I remember one of the teachers were British and I was brought up to talk English at home when I first, when I was a baby. [00:20:25] And we had plays, you know? All the, uh, all the uh, Mother Goose rhymes, you know? The little, the three Goldilocks and the Three Bears and all the, we had play that we, you know, when we were in fact it was only in kindergarten. But still, they were not as strict. They were not as intolerant uh...Frank Eny was very strict. Very, very strict and they just didn't leave you, they could... [00:21:00] They could, you know, I mean, your identity, your, you know, they more or less didn't let us, you know, our confidence, our self-confidence in a way was...was, was, you know, between what was happening in the government between what has happened to the Jews, between the strictness of the school, the parents were strict as well. [00:21:23] Very loving but my dad was brought up in England and it was British upbringing. So there was too much don't’s, you know? There was too many, they won't let your individuality come out. They stunted our...emotional, or not emotional, sorry, I guess our, our growth in a way. Our, our, our, uh, individuality was stunted. It took a while to kind of blossom out, you know?

[00:21:57] Interviewer: Was the school know in kind of Baghdad society? Was the government ever involved? Were there government people ever around?

[00:22:07] Lisette Shashoua: Um, well yes, the people who had, I mean, there will be one Muslim, there will be one Muslim student who uh, was a doctor, became a doctor sorry. His father was a doctor so all the people who were prominent, who had doctors or stuff who wanted their children to have the best upbringing in Iraq would send their children to our school. [00:22:33] We had some Armenian kids, we had uh, uh, we had minister's children at the time and uh, some of them who grew up with us from - some of them came with us from Frank Eny and then ended up, you know, Frank Eny Nahaim was up to the sixth grade uh, elementary and then the seventh grade becomes only Frank Eny. We all had to go to Frank Eny. [00:23:02] And the, they stayed with us so they grew up with us and they also came to our parties and our, they were one of us. We accepted them as our brothers and sisters. And uh...

[00:23:16] Interviewer: But what I mean is in particularly, I guess, around the 1967 period, was there any kind of sense of government intrusion or spying upon or....[overlap]

[00:23:29] Lisette Shashoua: There could have been, I don't really know because I already was in university and uh, yes, I think they did send inspectors and uh, yeah, they did send inspectors for time to time and by then, children were really, some of the people who were kicked out of school. Oh that's another thing that the school and the teachers at [inaudible] in Israel now were very helpful about. [00:23:59] When people were kicked out of their jobs they were too proud to say they had no money because there was no unemployment insurance, there was no, they were living from salary to salary and when the month went by and there’s no salary they started to have trouble with food, with...the most important stuff. [00:24:21] So some kids fainted at school from hunger. Some uh, you know, and thy gave them a sandwich, they said, well, this is for my, you know, he ate half of it to give the other part to his mother and what happened was Sutsumha [sp?] herself with a few other ladies decided to make like uh, some, some food baskets and they would send it every day to those families. [00:24:51] And it was really hush-hush. They kept their identities hush-hush to save their pride and they helped out a lot. When it came to that period of time our school became - instead of becoming in a way our enemy and trying to find fault with everyone, which is too big a word I'm using. It wasn't that, it was just that you, you, you feel you're always being judged, you know? The school helped them a lot and, and it somehow changed, like, if my name was, you know in Iraq the name would be Lisette because I'm the daughter of Menashe and my last name is Shashoua but Menashe would show I'm Jewish. [00:25:36] So for her to, to, she would change the ID cards, you know, she would see Lisette Shashoua so that Menashe doesn't show. Some people had Heskel, some people had, you know, bigger Jewish names that had to be erased so she changed everybody's name so that their identity card would not show right away that they were Jewish. [00:26:01] So the school became really the mother of, of those children. So, you know, so there were two sides to it and it was, look, it built us. And uh...

[00:26:15] Interviewer: Let's talk a little bit about the society and the influence of the school but you're talking about, your last comments were obviously 1967 and later when, because the phones are cut off and jobs are lost. But let's talk about the 1060's, before 1967. So how, how insulated was the Jewish community? Did you go out much?

[00:26:40] Lisette Shashoua: Well I know my dad had some Muslim friends, very good friends. My dad had horse races, Arab stallions uh, in and horse yeah, uh, race horses, I'm sorry. And when there was a king his lodge, you know, where he sat, his booth was right next to the king, my dad. And ha had a Muslim, a Muslim partner and friend, very close friend. [00:27:13] In fact, I think I've sent you pictures of my dad and mom, New Year's eve with uh, Muslim friends. They would go out and socialize with them. The guy who worked for my dad was Muslim. His uh, his nephew was Muslim who also worked for my dad. So yes, we, our gardener was Muslim and he, he uh, lived in my grandfather's house, you know? Not the Shashoua palace, another house that my grandfather had. [00:27:48] They had a shed for him and his family and they all lived in that shed. He, his family, I mean, they lived in our garden, they lived in our house and they guarded the house too and when there was uh, say the Farhoud, he guarded the house. He wouldn't let them in. So, yes, we had very good Muslim friends. But of course, after the '67 war, even these people started to be scare to come to us and stuff.

[00:28:18] Interviewer: So let's take that as kind of a juncture point. How did '67, how did thing start turning for the, well the school, I guess the Jewish community and the school? I mean, it's a big story but give a kind of sketch of what it was like for you.

[00:28:38] Lisette Shashoua: At school, I really was out of school by then. I was at university and but I did go the first year, freshman university and made Muslim and Christian friends who were very, you know, nobody thought about Jewish, non-Jewish, nobody thought about that. In fact, we used to explain to them the class, the school, the curriculum. [00:29:02] We would explain to them the lessons, they copied from us and then when the '67 war happened they just stopped talking to us and they started report - uh, you know, lying and saying one drew a star of David, they took him to prison. The other one, they also said about another girl, they took her to prison, you know? Anybody you don't like, if you say they did something whether it's true or not, you know, at fist you put them in prison and you don't ask questions. It's you and your luck. [00:29:33] So they turned against us. They punched people in their stomachs, [inaudible] telling them to leave the university and never come back. they threatened some of them that they'd kill them if the ever, ever come back at university. I mean, it became, these are the students that came to school with us. These were our colleagues, our friends. So that's what happened to us who were in the non-Jewish...you know, umbrella anymore. And the one who were at school, I don't know. I guess they were still protected in a way but I don't know how many inspectors. [00:30:12] They did get inspectors. I remember they brought a camera crew once to university trying to show how many Jews were at university even though they didn't allow the Jews to continue in the after '67 war. Us, we were in already so they were threatening that they'll kick us out any minute. Every day we went to university we thought would be our last because we are Jewish. Everyday.

[00:30:41] [technical adjustment]

[00:31:14] Interviewer: Tell us about how you, how did you get out of Iraq?

[00:31:19] Lisette Shashoua: I escaped. I escaped. I escaped from Iraq without my parents and uh, really, honestly, I didn't know if I would ever see them again. You know? I escaped through the mountains with a family that was also escaping and uh, uh...I'm not crying, my eyes are tearing.

[00:31:47] Interviewer: It's okay, crying good.

[00:31:49] Lisette Shashoua: No but I'm not. [laughs]

[00:31:53] Interviewer: Do you need a tissue?

[00:31:54] Lisette Shashoua: Yah, I think so.

[00:31:57] [Gets tissue]

[00:32:30] Interviewer: Let's start that again, so how did you, you get out of Iraq?

[00:32:35] Lisette Shashoua: I escaped through Kurdistan with a family that accepted to take me because I was definitely leaving alone. My parents wanted to stay in Iraq to see if they could salvage any of their property, which unfortunately was a lot of property. Um...[00:32:58] And uh, my grandmother was also alive so it was not a uh, it was not an option for them to, to escape like I did. And so I was lucky enough uh, I escaped with uh, my sister Hilda is married to Fred Rejouan [sp?], his brother. [00:33:24] You know, Fred, my sister was married here in Montreal. She was older than me. She left Iraq before the restrictions and uh, so I didn't see my sisters for ten and 15 years practically. And then when I left Iraq without my parents, I didn't see my parents for another 20 years after. So my sisters didn't see my parents for 30 years. [00:33:52] And uh, anyway we were vey lucky that they came out in 1990 thinking they're gonna go back and sell some property and the war started and they were stuck here, thank god. And they couldn't go back. And at least they spent the rest of their lives with us.

[00:34:13] Interviewer: Do you miss the life you had in Baghdad? Would you like to go - I know you can't go back but would you like to go back?

[00:34:21] Lisette Shashoua: I don't think so. I had a nice childhood. I had a lovely childhood and I think what uh...what, what uh, uh describes my childhood is my friends and my family, right? And thank god, they're all out. So what's there to miss? No. I used to, when I first left I used to miss the sleeping on the roof, which I'm sure everybody told you about. [00:34:52] Our house was right on the river so you could hear the rippling of the water at night and see the stars and the moon and the halo around the moon. In fact, my dad would wake me up and say ,"Look a the halo around the moon tonight." And it was magical and the water in the, in those ceramic uh, you know, clay pots, I mean the taste of that, our garden, but it's not there anymore so what's there to miss? Nothing at all. [00:35:22] I mean, I had such...bad, you know, I was so afraid uh, I was, you know, I mean, there was nothing to miss anymore. No. I missed my parent at the time when I left Iraq, I felt like it was a scar that was not healing in my heart because I couldn’t write to them properly. I couldn't speak to them, I didn't hear their voices, but Iraq? What's there to miss? They hated us! [00:35:54] And the worst part is I wasn't even aware of how much the Babylonian Jews had done in Iraq. It was, we didn't study anything about the Babylonian Jews. Not even in our Hebrew classes because we were only allowed to study Hebrew half an hour a week. So and only up to the six elementary so if the, at least I had known, I mean, we had two prophets that we knew about that ware buried there. [00:36:25] But we didn't know why they were there. I asked my mom, "How come they are here?" She said, "I don't know." And it turns out there's at least eight prophets who are written in the bible like Ezekiel is there, Ezra the scribe is there, Daniel is there. Job, Jonah, Seth uh, you know? All these people are buried in Iraq and we had no idea! We had no idea that there were Jews in Babylon. And it's the Jews in Babylon who built...you know, all the laws practically of Judaism. [00:36:59] We had no idea. Had we known it, maybe we would have been more, you know, at the time I used to be very proud that we were in Mesopotamia and it was the beginning of civilization but then when they started to make us feel unwelcome, no. How can I be nostalgic? I couldn't wait to get out. I was dying to get out. My parents were stuck there. What's there to go back to? It's horrible memories, horrible.

[00:37:32] Interviewer: So what, to your knowledge, what's happened to the school? To Frank Eny?

[00:37:36] Lisette Shashoua: It still is there, it became, the confiscated it and now it became, I don't know, some kind of military school or something. But it's still standing and they paint it from time to time and, you know, you see the new pictures that are taken off the door, the art deco door and all that and we didn't realize at the time it was such a modern building. [00:38:01] But I remember the stairs like everybody remembers the stairs because we all used to go up to our classes and, you know. And when I used to go wait for my sisters who were already in Frank Eny and I was in Nahaim, when I was a kid and you used to see all those people coming down those stairs and then I, we started to go up those stairs and I guess, you know, somebody sent a poem about it for this reunion. [00:38:29] And saying how the building still holds our laughs and our, you know, screams and our fun and I'm sure the building still had our aura, or our energy in it and maybe it does. Maybe it does.

[00:38:48] Interviewer: Great, thank you. Okay, good, very good.

[00:38:58] [tail slate]

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